The brilliant roads in Spain.

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WhoseGeneration
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The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:59 pm

Well, my thread last year on this subject ended up locked.
So, this year's May holiday in Spain was based in Denia. Again, absolutely perfect roads, whichever category. Denia, a seaside tourist resort, was immaculate.
I had thought Spain was a basket case, you know, youth unemployment at about 40%, with some coming to the UK for work.
How does this work?

WhoseGeneration
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby WhoseGeneration » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:23 pm

The February holiday was in South East Asia.
Again, very good road surfaces in countries one wouldn't have expected such.

martine
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby martine » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:34 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:Well, my thread last year on this subject ended up locked.
So, this year's May holiday in Spain was based in Denia. Again, absolutely perfect roads, whichever category. Denia, a seaside tourist resort, was immaculate.
I had thought Spain was a basket case, you know, youth unemployment at about 40%, with some coming to the UK for work.
How does this work?

Is it because they get huge grants from the EU to improve their road system...like Eire?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:50 pm

Here's the current projects.
Nick

sussex2
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:20 am

WhoseGeneration wrote:Well, my thread last year on this subject ended up locked.
So, this year's May holiday in Spain was based in Denia. Again, absolutely perfect roads, whichever category. Denia, a seaside tourist resort, was immaculate.
I had thought Spain was a basket case, you know, youth unemployment at about 40%, with some coming to the UK for work.
How does this work?


Spain is by no means a basket case. It's growth rate exceeds the UK. A remarkable achievement given it had no official government for a couple of years - who needs them :)
Yes there is high youth unemployment but this is endemic. It has always been like that and many young people are 'hidden' as they work for their families.

Just for reference: http://elpais.com/elpais/2017/04/19/ine ... 71364.html

Spain places a high importance on its infrastructure.
It has one of the most advanced motorway networks, amongst the largest in the world.
The high speed train network (limited to 320kph at the moment, planned to increase to nearer 400kph later) is also amongst the largest in the world (I stand to be correct but believe it may actually be the largest). A network which charges reasonable prices as well.
Unless they are part of the EU cohesion plan, roads are funded by the Spanish State and maintaining them is given high priority. The toll motorway network is built by private contractors who recoup the cost via the tolls - though the government has had to 'nationalise' some of them that have fallen into financial problems.
The autonomous states such as Catalunya and Euskadi (Basque country) and others have individual power to build/maintain and police roads.
All roads are generally well maintained and effectively policed.

martine
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby martine » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:37 am

I see from Mr, Cholmondeley-Warner's link the EU are contributing huge funds to the new Spain-France rail link...

"The EU contributed more than EUR 3.3 billion (over 70 % of the total cost) to linking Madrid via Barcelona-Figueras with the French city of Perpignan in just 3.5 hours"
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:04 pm

Yes, but you have to bear in mind that each country gets its funding based on a ratio between EU and local investment, so the EU only matches funding the country is making itself. In Spain's case that's 44/56, so Spain has to pay 56% of any jointly funded projects. I don't know how the 70% was arranged for that project - maybe it's a special case.
Nick

Gareth
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby Gareth » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:45 pm

sussex2 wrote:The high speed train network [...] is also amongst the largest in the world (I stand to be correct but believe it may actually be the largest). A network which charges reasonable prices as well.

By that I assume you mean it is subsidised at the point of use by tax payers to a larger extent than is the case in the UK.

Have just looked at the figures recorded at Wikipedia - the subsidy in Spain is significantly larger in absolute terms, and is more than three times higher per passenger-kilometre. I guess it must be a question of differing priorities; UK government spending per capita is significantly higher than in Spain, according to OECD data but, for example, the per capita difference in defence spending might go some way to explain the difference.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

sussex2
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Yes, but you have to bear in mind that each country gets its funding based on a ratio between EU and local investment, so the EU only matches funding the country is making itself. In Spain's case that's 44/56, so Spain has to pay 56% of any jointly funded projects. I don't know how the 70% was arranged for that project - maybe it's a special case.


I imagine that it was a special case for the following reasons:
A completely new line needed to be build between France and Barcelona to the standard European gauge. The normal Spanish gauge is wider and not suitable for the high speed trains, which use the standard gauge.
This would have to have included new or expanded stations and platforms.
The high speed lines also drive on the left, whereas the Spanish drive on the right.
A much higher cost would have been placed on the Spanish government in order to effect these changes.
The line connects two important cities Paris and Barcelona.

As technical interest there are trains adapted for both gauges, though not the truly high speed ones. The old line where it crosses into France at Port Bou is a typical example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiH4kt14yGw
Last edited by sussex2 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dvenman
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Re: The brilliant roads in Spain.

Postby dvenman » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:19 pm

sussex2 wrote:The Spanish railways also drive on the right whereas the French and the high speed lines, use the left.


My word. I'd hate to see a foreign train on my side of the tracks, especially if it's overtaking...


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