Advanced Driving Hub

Rolyan wrote:I know of at least one advanced driver on ADHUB who admits to using the phone while driving, albeit hands free

How would that be different to having a conversation with a passenger / being distracted by children in the car / listening to a deep debate on the radio / etc.?

Doesn't that address a different issue - of concentration, where a big part of the concern over using mobiles is eyes off the road?

It is very difficult to legislate for concentration...

Alasdair

akirk wrote:

Rolyan wrote:I know of at least one advanced driver on ADHUB who admits to using the phone while driving, albeit hands free

How would that be different to having a conversation with a passenger

Typically a passenger will be aware of your driving task, and it's easier to tell them to wait momentarily. A caller will have no visual awareness.

Also, on the phone, there's a . . . delay, plus the sound quality is poor so you have to concentrate harder.

Horse wrote:Typically a passenger will be aware of your driving task, and it's easier to tell them to wait momentarily. A caller will have no visual awareness.

True but in professional circles when a colleague calls you on the move, they're aware that they may have to wait for an answer sometimes.

Horse wrote:Also, on the phone, there's a . . . delay, plus the sound quality is poor so you have to concentrate harder.

On a motorbike, maybe In a car, the sound quality from a built-in Bluetooth set can be just like having another passenger. Of course it varies with signal strength, but it's really very good most of the time.

I'll hold my hands up and say I do very occasionally receive calls while on the move. I'd probably never bother making outgoing ones unless I had a passenger to do the dialling for me, or the dialling was done when stationary, although my newest car does make that very easy (pictures of my favourite callers in the main display, details in the dash display directly in front of me).

I really don't see much difference between making calls and other tasks
e.g. in my Skoda Octavia - the functionality to make a call on the screen in the dashboard is as similar, if a little fewer steps, than changing from e.g. radio to a track in a folder stored on the SD card for music - I can see no difference in the concentration / distraction / etc. in doing that...

once into the call (which really is very good quality) it is probable that the level of distraction is less than for example having to resolve squabbles from children in the back seat which I think is far more distracting... I accept that it is probably a bit more than a passenger as you tend to focus more when you can't see the person you are talking to... but I am sure there are plenty of drivers and passengers who have very intense discussions!

even operating a physical mobile phone (which I wouldn't do) is probably less distracting than lighting a match / cigarette lighter, popping a cigarette into your mouth, holding a naked flame to your face and lighting the cigarette - all while doing 70+ up the motorway It has to be less of an issue than the lady I once followed on the M5 who was (with considerable talent!) changing her baby's nappy on the passenger seat (in it's seat) while driving... I hate to think what contortions were required, but it showed a very patient baby and a physically talented mother (albeit mentally a little suspect! and she did manage to occupy all three lanes of the motorway while doing it!) The point being there are lots of stupid and distracting things people do - mobile phones can be bad, but there are also ways of managing them (e.g. through the car system) to minimise issues...

surely the issue has to be any loss of concentration / distraction - not the actual action per se?

Alasdair

akirk wrote: probably less distracting than lighting a match / cigarette lighter, popping a cigarette into your mouth, holding a naked flame to your face and lighting the cigarette

A Thames Valley acc investigator told of a fatal along a two lane country road involving a head-on between a car and fire appliance. The driver who lost was a pipe smoker and had tobacco and ash on his thumb . . .

One of the problems with mobile phone use is it's usually a distraction for much longer than things like changing a CD or lighting a fag. Also the unique interaction with a distant person has been shown to be much more of a problem than more routine tasks (which isn't really surprising). Sussex Uni produced the most recent study investigating mobile phone distraction and they came to the conclusion that there was little difference between hand-held and hands-free - both were significant in extending reaction times.

They also pinned down how detrimental a phone conversation that involved the driver visualising (like 'tell me where you put that file') can be. It seems the driver's brain is overloaded and can't do the visual task of driving well at the same time.

martine wrote:One of the problems with mobile phone use is it's usually a distraction for much longer than things like changing a CD or lighting a fag. Also the unique interaction with a distant person has been shown to be much more of a problem than more routine tasks (which isn't really surprising). Sussex Uni produced the most recent study investigating mobile phone distraction and they came to the conclusion that there was little difference between hand-held and hands-free - both were significant in extending reaction times.

They also pinned down how detrimental a phone conversation that involved the driver visualising (like 'tell me where you put that file') can be. It seems the driver's brain is overloaded and can't do the visual task of driving well at the same time.

Interesting...
did they compare it though against conversations / arguments with the passenger / dealing with squabbling children - many of which are more distracting I would have thought?

Alasdair

martine wrote:One of the problems with mobile phone use is it's usually a distraction for much longer than things like changing a CD or lighting a fag.

IIRC a study in Canada compared a large company fleet's insurance and phone records. The detrimental effect of the calls persisted for up to 20 minutes.

akirk wrote:did they compare it though against conversations / arguments with the passenger / dealing with squabbling children - many of which are more distracting I would have thought?

https://trl.co.uk/reports/INS002

In 2007, a workshop was conducted at the Department for Transport, and the conclusion was drawn that driver distraction is a significant factor in accident causation, but is neither completely understood nor documented. This Insight Report describes the results of four recent TRL studies in the field of in-vehicle distraction. The scoping study of driver distraction brought together experts in the field to discuss the concept of driver distraction and reach agreement on a definition. The project reviewed observation-based, experimental and opinion-based research and identified a range of research gaps. In terms of experimental research, this Insight Report describes two driving simulator studies that were conducted to examine how mobile phone use affects driving performance. One study showed that reaction times were significantly increased when using a mobile phone compared with a conversation with a passenger, using in-vehicle controls and without any simultaneous tasks. The second study showed that mobile phone use resulted in significantly higher reaction times, even when compared with driving at the UK legal limit for alcohol consumption. Finally, in terms of metrics and measures, this Insight Report describes the research that was carried out in developing the Occlusion Protocol, which is a technique for measuring visual demand.

http://www.mthr.org.uk/research_project ... Report.pdf
Included comparison with conversation with passengers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... phone.html

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... port95.pdf

akirk wrote:

martine wrote:One of the problems with mobile phone use is it's usually a distraction for much longer than things like changing a CD or lighting a fag. Also the unique interaction with a distant person has been shown to be much more of a problem than more routine tasks (which isn't really surprising). Sussex Uni produced the most recent study investigating mobile phone distraction and they came to the conclusion that there was little difference between hand-held and hands-free - both were significant in extending reaction times.

They also pinned down how detrimental a phone conversation that involved the driver visualising (like 'tell me where you put that file') can be. It seems the driver's brain is overloaded and can't do the visual task of driving well at the same time.

Interesting...
did they compare it though against conversations / arguments with the passenger / dealing with squabbling children - many of which are more distracting I would have thought?

Alasdair

Studies have shown that it is more distracting, for longer, than normal in car distractions, and it applies to the phone conversation, therefore hands free increases the risk and is still potentially dangerous.

Yet Advanced drivers still do it. Most of them would justify it by saying that they know when to do it, they can manage it safely, it's not a distraction etc etc etc. Exactly the same excuses given by the 'idiots' that we all want to see banned.