Mobile phones

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
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akirk
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Location: Bristol

Re: Mobile phones

Postby akirk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:27 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:What hope is there on any sensible consensus out in the real world when the members of an advanced driving forum can't agree what is, and isn't acceptable use? :roll:

The bottom line is: It DOES distract you, to varying degrees. There are arguments for occasional use. The great unwashed can't be trusted to make sensible choices, so a blanket ban is the only answer ... even if some (including on here) won't like it.


would you like a job as Transport Minister? :D very succinct...

however I don't think that anyone is arguing to allow mobile phones other than hands-free
and (without knowing the stats) presumably there are not overwhelming stats to show that hands-free use is causing accidents / killing people - even if it is not optimal...

I am sure that we all agree that optimal conditions in the car include no distractions - but, while I might go out for a drive with others from here and have that level of focus, the reality of real life is far from ideal...

Alasdair

Silk
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Location: South Glos.

Re: Mobile phones

Postby Silk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:43 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:I am very disappointed with some of the attitudes on display here. Well, not Silk; his is to be expected. But some of the others are a concern.


Goodness me. I suppose I should be pleased that I'm not a disappointment to you.

But I'm more concerned with your inability to understand the argument. No one is suggesting that using a mobile phone whilst driving is a positive contribution to road safety. But there is no doubt it can be very convenient and, as long as care is taken, the impact on road safety is probably negligible. As far as I'm concerned, laboratory conditions are simply not an accurate enough approximation of real-world driving.

Picking on one aspect of driving, simply because it's easier to police, is not the way to improve overall road safety, IMO.

WhoseGeneration
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby WhoseGeneration » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:13 pm

Put simply, there is no need for anyone to communicate whilst driving.
Emergency Services excluded.

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akirk
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby akirk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:42 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:Put simply, there is no need for anyone to communicate whilst driving.
Emergency Services excluded.


Or talk to your passengers
Or listen to the radio
Or think about / plan / go over conversations or issues at work
Or be angry / tired / frustrated / excited / etc.
Or have low blood pressure through not having eaten recently
Or eat while driving to avoid low blood pressure
Or eat a sweet or anything above functional fuel
Or smoke
Or drink (fluids)
Or drive for more than xxx (insert optimal time per person) in one stage
Or be conscious of needing the loo
Or driving with a cold / under the weather
Or...

good government is about recognising optimal governance - that is not perfect governance, but laws / rules that work hence not banning all the above

AD is not (other than in an obtuse abstract sense) about only accepting perfection - if it were none of us would be involved :racing: instead it is about pursuing a goal, while balancing that with reality.

there is of course something not yet mentioned - the more you concentrate and are 'on focus' the more tiring it is to drive - and therefore you could be reducing concentration capability later on in the journey... just one to think about I guess :D

Alasdair

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Strangely Brown
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Location: Sussex

Re: Mobile phones

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:23 pm

akirk wrote:
WhoseGeneration wrote:Put simply, there is no need for anyone to communicate whilst driving.
Emergency Services excluded.


Or talk to your passengers
Or listen to the radio
Or think about / plan / go over conversations or issues at work
Or be angry / tired / frustrated / excited / etc.
Or have low blood pressure through not having eaten recently
Or eat while driving to avoid low blood pressure
Or eat a sweet or anything above functional fuel
Or smoke
Or drink (fluids)
Or drive for more than xxx (insert optimal time per person) in one stage
Or be conscious of needing the loo
Or driving with a cold / under the weather
Or...


Passengers? Yes, in-car conversations are a distraction and yes, they have caused me to miss things even on test/assessment.
Radio? It's non-interactive. Yes, a vivid radio play could have the same effect as a conversation but music/waffle is pretty benign.
Consciously thinking about work? Yes, it's a problem. You should be aware enough to not do it. If you can't or need to then choose a different method of transport.
Angry/tired/etc? Yes. They are problems and we should all be aware of our own mental/health state and make the correct decision not to drive if we are not up to it.
Blood pressure/sugar problems? See above. If it is a medical problem that needs controlling then a GP/DVLA might make that decision for you.
Eating a sweet? Really? How desperate do you want to get in your analogies.
Smoking? Nobody *NEEDS* to smoke at all, and certainly not while driving. Wait until you are stopped.
Drinking? Same as smoking. I would make a exception for a non-spill bottle of water that can be used with one hand. Nobody *NEEDS* to drink hot coffee etc while driving.
Driving hours? For some vehicle classes they are controlled. See tired above?
Call of nature? Why would you let it get so bad that it becomes a problem. Stop when you feel the need. As LBJ said to Alan Shepard, "There are two things that you should never pass up - A free lunch or the opportunity to take a piss."
Illness? Same as Angry/tired/blood sugar etc.

How far are you willing to stretch credibility in an effort to justify phone use. WG's statement above is correct. You do not NEED to communicate while driving. You choose to do it because it is a convenience for you and you are prepared to accept the added risk. Why not just say that instead of the increasingly bizarre analogies.

We all make decisions to drive when circumstances are not ideal and we all assess and balance the risk, whether consciously or not. We all balance ideals with reality but this is nothing to do with AD; it is, or should be, normal everyday driving. Unfortunately, for many the scales are somewhat skewed.

ETA: Oh, and it's only going to get worse as more of the driving task is taken away from the driver by "progress" in driver aids.

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Strangely Brown
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Location: Sussex

Re: Mobile phones

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:47 pm


User avatar
Strangely Brown
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Mobile phones

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:58 pm

Re: in-car distractions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4OlODAnDls

"Do you think I'm concentrating?"
"No. You're talking to me."

WhoseGeneration
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: Mobile phones

Postby WhoseGeneration » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:21 pm

I suspect my attitude to this partly comes from my having started out on motorcycles.
You don't concentrate on the task in hand, you crash. Been there.

Matt1962
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Mobile phones

Postby Matt1962 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:14 pm

I also have a full motorcycle licence (attained 37 years ago) and relatively regularly do the 35 mile round trip to the office on my pushbike - so along with my 15 years of ROSPA Gold as a car driver and a fair bit of tractor driving think I am reasonably experienced. I have seen and done far worse things on the roads than answering the odd hands free call on my mobile.

Matt1962
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Mobile phones

Postby Matt1962 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:44 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
akirk wrote:
WhoseGeneration wrote:Put simply, there is no need for anyone to communicate whilst driving.
Emergency Services excluded.


Or talk to your passengers
Or listen to the radio
Or think about / plan / go over conversations or issues at work
Or be angry / tired / frustrated / excited / etc.
Or have low blood pressure through not having eaten recently
Or eat while driving to avoid low blood pressure
Or eat a sweet or anything above functional fuel
Or smoke
Or drink (fluids)
Or drive for more than xxx (insert optimal time per person) in one stage
Or be conscious of needing the loo
Or driving with a cold / under the weather
Or...


Passengers? Yes, in-car conversations are a distraction and yes, they have caused me to miss things even on test/assessment.
Radio? It's non-interactive. Yes, a vivid radio play could have the same effect as a conversation but music/waffle is pretty benign.
Consciously thinking about work? Yes, it's a problem. You should be aware enough to not do it. If you can't or need to then choose a different method of transport.
Angry/tired/etc? Yes. They are problems and we should all be aware of our own mental/health state and make the correct decision not to drive if we are not up to it.
Blood pressure/sugar problems? See above. If it is a medical problem that needs controlling then a GP/DVLA might make that decision for you.
Eating a sweet? Really? How desperate do you want to get in your analogies.
Smoking? Nobody *NEEDS* to smoke at all, and certainly not while driving. Wait until you are stopped.
Drinking? Same as smoking. I would make a exception for a non-spill bottle of water that can be used with one hand. Nobody *NEEDS* to drink hot coffee etc while driving.
Driving hours? For some vehicle classes they are controlled. See tired above?
Call of nature? Why would you let it get so bad that it becomes a problem. Stop when you feel the need. As LBJ said to Alan Shepard, "There are two things that you should never pass up - A free lunch or the opportunity to take a piss."
Illness? Same as Angry/tired/blood sugar etc.

How far are you willing to stretch credibility in an effort to justify phone use. WG's statement above is correct. You do not NEED to communicate while driving. You choose to do it because it is a convenience for you and you are prepared to accept the added risk. Why not just say that instead of the increasingly bizarre analogies.

We all make decisions to drive when circumstances are not ideal and we all assess and balance the risk, whether consciously or not. We all balance ideals with reality but this is nothing to do with AD; it is, or should be, normal everyday driving. Unfortunately, for many the scales are somewhat skewed.

ETA: Oh, and it's only going to get worse as more of the driving task is taken away from the driver by "progress" in driver aids.


I'm sorry, but looking back at all the occasions when I have answered a mobile call whilst driving, the vast majority have been positive contributions to my safety/wellbeing. Most have been along the lines of 'turn off because there is an accident ahead' or 'ignore the satnav the hotel carpark is immediately right after the pub'. No bizarre analogies here.


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