Mobile phones

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Horse
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:18 pm

'Like' :)
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Horse
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:27 pm

Rolyan wrote:The official line from the government is that hands free mobiles are legal to use in a vehicle, because they are safe to use.


- You may use a hands-free phone while driving but you can still be prosecuted if you’re not in proper control of your vehicle.

-The penalties are same as being caught using a handheld phone.The penalties for driving carelessly or dangerously when using a handheld or hands-free phone can include disqualification, a large fine and up to two years imprisonment.

http://think.direct.gov.uk/mobile-phones.html
My own views. For better or worse :)

Rolyan
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Rolyan » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:55 am

waremark wrote:
Rolyan wrote:
Silk wrote:We could also ban people called Mark. No particular reason, just that fewer drivers equals safer roads and you have to start somewhere. ;).

No way. The only driver I know called Mark is an excellent driver, officially tested to a very high standard.

There again I once saw him at an IAM meeting and his fashion sense left a lot to be desired, so perhaps we can ban the use of satnavs when wearing a tie with a worsted jacket.

Would this be about anyone I know?

I cannot possibly comment!

Rolyan
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Rolyan » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:04 am

Strangely Brown wrote:
akirk wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
akirk wrote:I don't think we are necessarily saying legal=safe


Perhaps you missed this bit:

Rolyan wrote:The official line from the government is that hands free mobiles are legal to use in a vehicle, because they are safe to use.


Sounds like he is saying exactly that.



surely that is saying as it is safe it is legal
not
as it is legal, it is safe

2 totally different things


You are correct, my mistake <slaps self>. They are, of course, two different things. However...

The reason that they are legal is not "because they are safe" - studies so far show the opposite to be true - but almost certainly because to make them illegal would be impossible to police. You would only ever "catch someone" after there was cause to check the call logs or carrier records.

Surely you are both missing simple logic here.

I've said that the government regards hands free mobiles as safe, as they have made it legal to use. You both disagree with that statement. Which means that you believe that the Government believes that hands free mobiles are unsafe to use, but they have made it legal to use them. That's illogical, and certainly not supported by their other action of making hand held mobiles illegal to use because they are unsafe.

Remember, we are not talking about what is and isn't safe, just what the Government believes. Logic, common sense and current legislation all suggests that the Government believe hands free is safe to use, and I really can't see why you would disagree with that.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Strangely Brown » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:47 am

It's a simple matter of what is or is not policeable. Neither are "safe" to use on the move. Hand-held use is obvious. Hands-free use is not. I believe it is that simple.

Astraist
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Astraist » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:33 am

Also, the law isn't quite so dynamic and flexible as to accommodate for every piece of up-to-date research.

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jont-
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby jont- » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:44 am

Astraist wrote:Also, the law isn't quite so dynamic and flexible as to accommodate for every piece of up-to-date research.

Or indeed technology. That's why I come back to keep it simple - police for and prosecute for DWDCA. Why do you need anything else?

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Strangely Brown » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:27 pm

Rolyan wrote:Which means that you believe that the Government believes that hands free mobiles are unsafe to use, but they have made it legal to use them. That's illogical, and certainly not supported by their other action of making hand held mobiles illegal to use because they are unsafe.


The Government have not "made it legal to use [hands-free phones]". They have simply not made it illegal to use them and that is not the same thing. Pretty much everything is "legal" to do until legislation is passed to make it not.

Rolyan wrote:Remember, we are not talking about what is and isn't safe, just what the Government believes. Logic, common sense and current legislation all suggests that the Government believe hands free is safe to use, and I really can't see why you would disagree with that.


But we *are* talking about what is and isn't safe. Other than the lack of legislation to make hands-free use illegal there is no evidence to suggest that the Government believes that such use is safe. In fact, if you read the official mobile phone advice you will see that the opposite is more likely true. If they believed that hands-free use was "safe" then they would say so. The overall official advice is to not use a mobile phone while driving. The detail refers to the law.

As Horse posted previously:
http://think.direct.gov.uk/mobile-phones.html

Nothing in there suggests to me that "the Government believe hands free is safe to use".

Rolyan
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Rolyan » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:54 am

Strangely Brown wrote:
Rolyan wrote:Which means that you believe that the Government believes that hands free mobiles are unsafe to use, but they have made it legal to use them. That's illogical, and certainly not supported by their other action of making hand held mobiles illegal to use because they are unsafe.


The Government have not "made it legal to use [hands-free phones]". They have simply not made it illegal to use them and that is not the same thing. Pretty much everything is "legal" to do until legislation is passed to make it not.

Rolyan wrote:Remember, we are not talking about what is and isn't safe, just what the Government believes. Logic, common sense and current legislation all suggests that the Government believe hands free is safe to use, and I really can't see why you would disagree with that.


But we *are* talking about what is and isn't safe. Other than the lack of legislation to make hands-free use illegal there is no evidence to suggest that the Government believes that such use is safe. In fact, if you read the official mobile phone advice you will see that the opposite is more likely true. If they believed that hands-free use was "safe" then they would say so. The overall official advice is to not use a mobile phone while driving. The detail refers to the law.

As Horse posted previously:
http://think.direct.gov.uk/mobile-phones.html

Nothing in there suggests to me that "the Government believe hands free is safe to use".

All semantics my dear chap and you know it.

The Government have made it illegal to use hand held, because it's unsafe. But they have not made it illegal to use hands free, presumeably because they believe it's safe.

But if you believe otherwise then that's fine. Since it's Christmas, and there isn't a hope of this being introduced, it really doesn't matter one way or the other.

Rolyan
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Re: Mobile phones

Postby Rolyan » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:58 am

jont- wrote:
Astraist wrote:Also, the law isn't quite so dynamic and flexible as to accommodate for every piece of up-to-date research.

Or indeed technology. That's why I come back to keep it simple - police for and prosecute for DWDCA. Why do you need anything else?

Because it's often easier and clearer with guidelines and rules to understand what is and isn't allowed.


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