Requirements for paid driving work

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Smeeagain
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Requirements for paid driving work

Postby Smeeagain » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:45 pm

Im looking to move to the Inner Hebrides. I will be undertaking tourism related work across a number of areas (b&b etc). There is an option to do some paid driving work and also unpaid/voluntary driving (community minibus).
My question is, do I need any special licence/certificates for the following (appreciate I'll need to discuss with insurer.
My driving licence was issued in January so I belive I have some 'grandfather' right.

1) Unpaid minibus driving (15 seater I belive) - no special requirements ?

2) Paid driving work (tours/taxi-ing) in domestic car up to 9 seater ie me as driver and 8 passengers - no special licence requirements? Some kinf of special commercial MOT

3) paid minibus 15 seater driving - PCV licence? Soecial MOT?

Any help is much appreciated!!!

christopherwk
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:15 pm

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby christopherwk » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:48 am

I can answer No 2. Though this would mainly be dependent on your local authority/council, though, as most around the country, incur similar rules, I'm not sure about Scotland.

You'll likely need a taxi/private hire licence, to carry passengers. Taxi, you can work off a rank and accept immediate street hails. Private Hire, the work has to be pre-booked in advance at an office/operating centre (which will require a seperate licence as well). In some places, the licence can cover both (and may cost the same), but other areas the taxi and private hire services are distinct (e.g. London).

In both cases, you'd need to take a medical, and usually an enhanced CRB check (now called DBS). You probably need to take some sort of topography test. Furthermore, your car may need to adhere to certain specifications (age/size/mileage) as set out by the local authority/council. Also it is likely you'll need an MOT every 6 months, if your car is over a year old.

You will also require hire and reward insurance for the carriage of passengers. They will look at how long you've been licensed for, rather than age/experience, or even type of car (though these will also be taken into account). Expect it to be a few thousand in your first year, and you probably can't transfer any private no-claims bonus either. However, if may be a reasonable amount in the Hebrides, compared to the London prices I pay. Driving about 8 passengers (rather than 4 in a normal car), will push premiums up, though.

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superplum
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:39 pm
Location: Above Suffolk

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby superplum » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:50 am

Have you looked at the DVLA website(?):

https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/driving-licences

Smeeagain
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby Smeeagain » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:50 am

I did see that thank you but it raised more questions than answers .....

Let me add some more info which may (or may not!) help. Ive been approached by the owners of the local restaurant there asking if I would pick up their customers from local b&b's (there are no hotels) take them to the restaurant and drop them back again at the end of the eve. Payment would come from the customer either to me directly or via the restaurant (ie the restaurant would be the payer but not the passenger). There would be no private hire office other than me at home in my house.

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akirk
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Location: Cotswolds

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby akirk » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:29 pm

I presume that a company's employee driving a customer doesn't come under private hire, it may depend on how you structure the relationship with the restaurants...
Alasdair

Smeeagain
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby Smeeagain » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:06 pm

Well that's what Im wondering .....

christopherwk
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:15 pm

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby christopherwk » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:05 am

It would depend if the customers are paying extra for the service of being collected and dropped off, or it's included as part of their restaurant bill. If it isn't, and they're paying extra for the service, then I think then that would probably be classed as private hire.

It's a similar situation to car dealers (usually franchised ones), some of them offer a lift into town/train station/work/home etc., after you drop your car off for a service. Quite often this is complimentary, as it's included in the £100+ an hour for labour charge when you pay for your service. However, this is usually done in one of the cars owned by the dealer, rather than the driver's own, personal car, so the usual private hire laws do not apply.

Nonetheless, in order to accept a private hire booking, it will have to come from a private hire operator of the same local authority/council. Which means applying for a private hire operator's licence, again, dependent on council, the difficulty on getting varies, some may do small licences, designed for one-man band operators, which is easier to get (no need for specific office premises, planning permission, etc.). A taxi driver, on the other hand, does not need an operator's licence to take pre-bookings.

Only exemptions from licensing are firms solely specialising in weddings and funerals.

Anyway, a couple of links from Argyll and Bute's Council website (if yours is a different council, look for the heading "Licensing", and taxi/private hire should be there, amongst others).

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/licences ... 9s-licence
https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/licences ... rs-licence

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Horse
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Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby Horse » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:00 am

akirk wrote:I presume that a company's employee driving a customer doesn't come under private hire, it may depend on how you structure the relationship with the restaurants...
Alasdair


Years ago, landlord of a local bought a minibus to take 'tired' customers home. Service ended abruptly when he was told he needed additional licencing beyond a publican's.
My own views. For better or worse :)

hir
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby hir » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:34 am

Horse wrote:
akirk wrote:I presume that a company's employee driving a customer doesn't come under private hire, it may depend on how you structure the relationship with the restaurants...
Alasdair


Years ago, landlord of a local bought a minibus to take 'tired' customers home. Service ended abruptly when he was told he needed additional licencing beyond a publican's.


Horse is right...

OP you must get some official advice, don't rely on anything said on here. Get confirmation of what you believe, or are told on here, from the authorities who will prosecute you and invalidate your insurance if you get it wrong! :o :o :o

Yes, this is a complete nightmare to get one's head around. You need to talk to the service provider, the local authority, the DVLA, etc, etc etc. For example, when the D1 driving licence conditions refer to "hire or reward" they're not referring to a reward for the driver, ie. payment to reward the driver for his services. They're referring to payment by the passengers to the bus owner, who may, or may not, be the driver. It's the payment by the passengers to the bus operator that causes the problem for the driver. Unless, of course, the bus owner is operating under Section 19 or Section 22 of the Transport Act 1985 where organisations that provide transport on a ‘not-for-profit’ basis can apply for permits under those sections. These permits allow the holder to operate transport services for hire or reward without the need for a full public service vehicle (PSV) operator’s licence... and the driver can drive the bus on a D1 licence rather than a PSV licence... As I said before it's a legal, licensing and insurance nightmare. Be absolutely certain that what you are doing is permissible by the authorities... don't take any notice of the hotelier who says... " It's OK, everyone does it round here. We've been doing it for years without any problems. You might just end up being the first "problem" and you can bet the hotelier won't be anywhere to be seen. :oops:

D1 grandfather rights apply only to licences issued prior to 1 January 1997. When a D1 licence is renewed at age 70 the licence holder must apply to the DVLA in writing, with both eyesight and medical examination reports. D1 licences cannot be renewed online at age 70.

Smeeagain
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Re: Requirements for paid driving work

Postby Smeeagain » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:41 am

christopherwk wrote:It would depend if the customers are paying extra for the service of being collected and dropped off, or it's included as part of their restaurant bill. If it isn't, and they're paying extra for the service, then I think then that would probably be classed as private hire.

It's a similar situation to car dealers (usually franchised ones), some of them offer a lift into town/train station/work/home etc., after you drop your car off for a service. Quite often this is complimentary, as it's included in the £100+ an hour for labour charge when you pay for your service. However, this is usually done in one of the cars owned by the dealer, rather than the driver's own, personal car, so the usual private hire laws do not apply.

Nonetheless, in order to accept a private hire booking, it will have to come from a private hire operator of the same local authority/council. Which means applying for a private hire operator's licence, again, dependent on council, the difficulty on getting varies, some may do small licences, designed for one-man band operators, which is easier to get (no need for specific office premises, planning permission, etc.). A taxi driver, on the other hand, does not need an operator's licence to take pre-bookings.

Only exemptions from licensing are firms solely specialising in weddings and funerals.

Anyway, a couple of links from Argyll and Bute's Council website (if yours is a different council, look for the heading "Licensing", and taxi/private hire should be there, amongst others).

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/licences ... 9s-licence
https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/licences ... rs-licence


Thanks and yes that is the right council


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