That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

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martine
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That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby martine » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:17 pm

I went to the AIRSO fleet driver's conference today and we had some interesting speakers including 2 on autonomous cars and the issues.

I expect everyone here is familiar with the Tesla fatal crash a few months ago in the U.S. but I didn't realise that after it had gone under the truck trailer crossing it's path, the autopilot continued to try and control the car and in fact accelerated away from the collision in an attempt to get back to it's preset speed. The car was severely damaged (roof crushed) and it lost control and had 3 further collisions with fences etc over some distance before coming to rest.

I asked one of the speakers what his best guess would be for when a truly autonomous car would be on sale to the public in the UK and cautiously he said 10 years - but that it was dangerous to try and predict.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

WhoseGeneration
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:24 pm

Thing is, I suspect there will be lots of liability stuff to be resolved before autonomous cars can be let loose.
Put simply, Government might have to underwrite.

martine
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby martine » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:27 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:Thing is, I suspect there will be lots of liability stuff to be resolved before autonomous cars can be let loose.
Put simply, Government might have to underwrite.

I believe some manufacturers have already indicated they will insure their autonomous cars.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

WhoseGeneration
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:52 pm

martine wrote:
WhoseGeneration wrote:Thing is, I suspect there will be lots of liability stuff to be resolved before autonomous cars can be let loose.
Put simply, Government might have to underwrite.

I believe some manufacturers have already indicated they will insure their autonomous cars.


I'm not a lawyer, however even I can see that those manufacturers are laying theirselves open to large litigation claims.
That the claims will not involve direct, rather than remote actions, will probably mean compensation will be greater.

martine
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby martine » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:05 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:I'm not a lawyer, however even I can see that those manufacturers are laying theirselves open to large litigation claims.
That the claims will not involve direct, rather than remote actions, will probably mean compensation will be greater.

Yes - that's the point...the manufacturers are the designers of the software and hardware so are probably best placed to ensure it's as good as it can be and fail-safe. If they provide insurance then there is even more motivation to get it right...post sale.

One of the other problems highlighted at today's conference by the speakers was the issue of keeping the driver's attention when the car is semi-autonomous. At the moment the manufacturers explain even if the car is on 'autopilot', the driver should be monitoring and ready to take control at all times. Easy to say but we all know in practice many drivers will start fiddling with phone, laptop, newspaper, lunch - given half a chance.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

WhoseGeneration
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:16 pm

martine wrote:Yes - that's the point...the manufacturers are the designers of the software and hardware so are probably best placed to ensure it's as good as it can be and fail-safe. If they provide insurance then there is even more motivation to get it right...post sale.

One of the other problems highlighted at today's conference by the speakers was the issue of keeping the driver's attention when the car is semi-autonomous. At the moment the manufacturers explain even if the car is on 'autopilot', the driver should be monitoring and ready to take control at all times. Easy to say but we all know in practice many drivers will start fiddling with phone, laptop, newspaper, lunch - given half a chance.


Oh dear, "semi autonomous" and "autopilot".
This is sorta moving into the aviation world and that world just can't decide where it wants to be as regards the split between Human and computer.

sussex2
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby sussex2 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:07 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:
martine wrote:Yes - that's the point...the manufacturers are the designers of the software and hardware so are probably best placed to ensure it's as good as it can be and fail-safe. If they provide insurance then there is even more motivation to get it right...post sale.

One of the other problems highlighted at today's conference by the speakers was the issue of keeping the driver's attention when the car is semi-autonomous. At the moment the manufacturers explain even if the car is on 'autopilot', the driver should be monitoring and ready to take control at all times. Easy to say but we all know in practice many drivers will start fiddling with phone, laptop, newspaper, lunch - given half a chance.


Oh dear, "semi autonomous" and "autopilot".
This is sorta moving into the aviation world and that world just can't decide where it wants to be as regards the split between Human and computer.


And it's causing a lot of problems believe me!

martine
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby martine » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:20 pm

sussex2 wrote:And it's causing a lot of problems believe me!

But regardless, airliner safety has never been better. Last fatal crash from an aircraft landing or taking off from Heathrow was in 1972...not bad for one of the busiest airports in the world.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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ChristianAB
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby ChristianAB » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:09 pm

Not convinced that the same safety levels can be achieved with cars. Cars are cheap and well-spread commodities whereas planes are still million dollar worth pieces of hardware. Not to mention that for the most part, all a plane autopilot has to do is fly through mild weather. In addition, the autopilot is not even worried about traffic at airport, that's a job for the control tower.
And we haven't even got to the issue of hacking. I hope that it won't take an autonomous truck to reproduce the atrocities seen in Nice for the issue to be made clear.

martine
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Re: That Tesla 'autopilot' fatal crash

Postby martine » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:49 pm

I agree the aviation safety levels would be very difficult to reproduce in cars - it's a much less controlled environment.

Hacking is a real issue...I would hope part of the type approval would look at software security and fail-safe modes. Also, imagine having to run antivirus on your car's systems?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)


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