What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:41 am

Remember how town planners thought everyone would love big concrete tower blocks in the 1950s or how everyone would like a house that looked exactly like all their neighbours' ? Remember The Jetsons in the 1960s and the belief that by the end of the century (the last one) we would all have personal rocket pods?

No, exactly.

JonT's point about trains is apt - witness the struggle that's going on with the guards at Southern. In the whole of Europe there are 21 fully automated (GOA4) train services, of which many are just terminal transfer in airports. And that's trains, running on a fixed route with fixed stops, automatic signalling, in some cases only one vehicle shuttling back and forth on a single piece of track. And so on.
Nick

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akirk
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby akirk » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:00 am

Gareth wrote:No more driving jobs. No driver in mini-cabs, taxis, buses, coaches, lorries ... what a revolution!

It'll blow away the line between car-hire getting a taxi - the only difference being length of hire and the location at end of use, and for a national driverless car-hire company, the latter will have less significance as a car used for a trip from London to Edinburgh will then just be added to the pool of available cars in Edinburgh.

Without a driver in the taxi, usage charges should fall significantly. If hiring a car for a short journey is cheap, for commuting, shopping, and so on, it'll remove much of the incentive for private ownership of cars. There'll be a knock-on effect, over time, in the design of housing for most people - even less need to provide garages and parking. Similarly less parking will be required for town centres.


Utopia - at a theoretical level...
but still so many issues to deal with...
I live in a rural village, I am about to pop to the local shops as I need washing powder - very mundane, but I need it now... so should I summons a driverless car / taxi / etc. which assuming one is free will presumably come from Swindon in c. 20-30 minutes and sit around waiting for it to take me 3 miles, or should I pop into my car and be back at my desk within that same time?
Why is it that so many people in London own cars when they don't really need to - it being cheaper for many to hire / use taxis / etc. when needed than the depreciation / costs / parking of their own car - because people like to have their own car, it is their freedom, in their control, in their power - some people want autonomous cars, but many many do not

properties may or may not suit EVs / etc. I suspect that many autonomous cars will be EV, yet there is no way that I can plug a car in at my property, I own my parking area, but it is separated from my house by my neighbour's drive and due to old stone walls etc. it would be very expensive to put electricity in where my cars are - so I can't charge a car...

if it does come it will be very much slower to critical mass than expected... It is currently a lot of PR spin without much reality check going on...

Alasdair

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jont-
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby jont- » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:24 am

akirk wrote:I live in a rural village, I am about to pop to the local shops as I need washing powder - very mundane, but I need it now... so should I summons a driverless car / taxi / etc. which assuming one is free will presumably come from Swindon in c. 20-30 minutes and sit around waiting for it to take me 3 miles, or should I pop into my car and be back at my desk within that same time?

Why would you assume there won't be cars available locally? In the scene you describe there's probably enough demand for every settlement of more than a couple of houses to have a car hovering within a couple of minutes.
Then in Winter you'd have to defrost the car; and would waiting 20 minutes really be a problem? It's only if it's 3.30pm on a Sunday and you need to get to Halfords before it shuts that you really worry about closing times.

And if it's just a pint of milk you need, Amazon can send you a drone with some.... :lol:

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Horse
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby Horse » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:46 am

jont- wrote: It's only if it's 3.30pm on a Sunday and you need to get to Halfords before it shuts that you really worry about closing times.


Nope, 'cos the autonomous car has already taken itself to Halfords ;)


PS Do you think autonomous cars would spend identify RoSPA tutor & examiner customers and delay their journeys for 20 minutes for a cross-examination of why they want to take the trip, then a further 20 minutes while the electronic auto-voice parrots away all the features the vehicle has, then runs through a [almost certainly pointless] start-up brake test then rolling brake test? :bash: :headbang: :lol: :drums:
My own views. For better or worse :)

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akirk
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby akirk » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:59 am

jont- wrote:
akirk wrote:I live in a rural village, I am about to pop to the local shops as I need washing powder - very mundane, but I need it now... so should I summons a driverless car / taxi / etc. which assuming one is free will presumably come from Swindon in c. 20-30 minutes and sit around waiting for it to take me 3 miles, or should I pop into my car and be back at my desk within that same time?

Why would you assume there won't be cars available locally? In the scene you describe there's probably enough demand for every settlement of more than a couple of houses to have a car hovering within a couple of minutes.
Then in Winter you'd have to defrost the car; and would waiting 20 minutes really be a problem? It's only if it's 3.30pm on a Sunday and you need to get to Halfords before it shuts that you really worry about closing times.

And if it's just a pint of milk you need, Amazon can send you a drone with some.... :lol:


Because somewhere it will be based on economics and a study of the numbers of cars needed most of the time - which means that you can guarantee issues with too many cars sitting around at some times and not enough availability at other times... maybe I am selfish, maybe I have worked hard to get what I want, but I can guarantee that there would be times when all the cars in the village will have gone off with the commuters and not be available for others...

Equally, I like to have choice in my car - hence owning several - would I have been able to have a 2 seater sports car with the top down and enjoy blatting it around country lanes on the way to get the washing powder with the sound track of a 3 litre straight six bouncing off cotswold stone walls? - nope it would have been some boring generic autonomous box which would have bored me rigid... when I then need a 5 seater how will that work? Would this fleet of autonomous cars have the correct numbers of vans / 4x4s / family cars / etc. - of course not...

how would it work for a family like several friends of mine with 4 children who have been through an age where at least 3 if not 4 have needed largish car seats? Would the autonomous car turn up with these (if so, what happens for the next user who doesn't need them), or would the family have to provide them - so now the family has been dropped off to go shopping and the car vanishes to deal with someone else - they are left as one adult, 4 children under 6 years old and 4 large car seats!

how would it work when I need a car to take 4-5 adults / 3 or 4 dogs somewhere and then need to be off-road while there - will there be an autonomous range rover to use, or maybe I won't get that and an autonomous micra will turn up instead?!

just because technology enables something doesn't mean that a) everyone wants it b) we should have it...

the current PR puffery about autonomous cars is simply a load of tosh - there is no current reality check about how real life would impact such ideas...

yes, some of the technology will come, but in reality no-one really wants a fully autonomous world - we are people who like to interact and do things outside our houses - some people even enjoy driving or washing their car! It is just not going to happen in quite the way currently being described

Alasdair

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jont-
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby jont- » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:12 pm

akirk wrote: just because technology enables something doesn't mean that a) everyone wants it b) we should have it...

Hey, it keeps me in a job :P

/it's also why I've got a caterham in the garage.... :lol:

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akirk
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby akirk » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:36 pm

jont- wrote:
akirk wrote: just because technology enables something doesn't mean that a) everyone wants it b) we should have it...

Hey, it keeps me in a job :P

/it's also why I've got a caterham in the garage.... :lol:


And that is probably the best combination possible!

Alasdair

sussex2
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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby sussex2 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:40 pm

I wouldn't want to own or travel in a fully autonomous car, unless it was on a specific route and track, like a metro train.
The same applies to aircraft as I wouldn't want to fly in a pilotless one; no machine can mimic the reassuring and human voice coming from seat 1zero.
I appreciate what some automation can do but I also see what it cannot do, which is a great many things.

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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby sussex2 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:43 pm

jont- wrote:
akirk wrote: just because technology enables something doesn't mean that a) everyone wants it b) we should have it...

Hey, it keeps me in a job :P

/it's also why I've got a caterham in the garage.... :lol:


My basic and simple little MX5 will be kept for exactly the same reasons. It is an object lesson to drive something so simple and honestly designed.

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Re: What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

Postby Gareth » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:48 pm

Most people don't like driving and own cars for convenience and/or status. If it becomes more convenient to rent for a short journey, the incentive to own will become the province of those with larger disposable incomes. I can imagine that, possibly, hiring could end up cheaper than owning.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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