What would an "advanced driver" autonomous car do...?

[TheInsanity1234]

Blimey!

I had a post deleted by the moderator of one safety-related site after having the temerity suggest letting go of the wheel in a situation where the airbag is about to go off [to avoid the 'arms crossed over the airbag' issue]

Although that had been suggested by a World expert on airbags, it wasn't documented anywhere as good safety advice, apparently . . .

I recall talking to someone who was into drifting etc, and they said that if you started to oversteer, the best way to get it under control was to release the steering wheel and allow it to spin around to the correct amount of opposite lock needed to maintain the oversteer, then grab the wheel and add a tad more to reduce the oversteer angle, and then just spin the wheel back to centre quickly enough to avoid inducing oversteer in the other direction.

I'm not sure whether this would work on a car which was fitted with ESP or stuff like that...

Kind of want to rent a BMW for a day and go find a slippery place to muck about with it...

ETA: In fact, I now seem to recall that this was also something Ben Collins said in his book about his time as The Stig - he had to drift a Jaguar as part of a Top Gear Live show and this was his technique for putting the right amount of lock on.

[Horse]

Thinking back about 30blur years to skidpan session at Thruxton, I think we were told that if the car gets to 90 degrees from intended path of travel, your only real hope on the road is to press brake and clutch pedals and let go of the wheel.

There is a motorcycling parallel, in that holding onto the bars may be enough to crash a bike - they like to wiggle and wobble the front wheel to keep themselves balanced. Having a death-grip and tense arms can prevent that happening.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNbOh0N ... r_embedded

[WhoseGeneration]

This is why cars now have emergency brake assist (so if you hit them suddenly, then lift off because the ABS has activated my understanding is this keeps the brakes applied even if you let go of the pedal - I'm not sure at what point the brakes then release? Maybe when you stop, or kick the throttle?)

Nope.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/ ... assist-hba
Read the manual for your car.

Eta, just how many drivers out there understand the systems on their cars and how to use those systems to their advantage?
ESP, don't try to put on oppo, is an example.
Problem is, just how can drivers get to grip with these systems in a safe environment?

[GTR1400MAN]

I've had the EBA (Emergency Brake Assist) on my Civic activate when not required. I was braking quickly/firmly for a dog that ran into the road. The violent braking that ensued surprised/startled me ... and the car behind me! He was a reasonable distance behind (luckily) but still locked up as I came to an almost standstill. I'd not experienced it in action before despite having tried out the ABS. The difference was, I admit, I stabbed at the pedal, When I tested the ABS I used a smooth increasing pressure push.

[WhoseGeneration]

. The difference was, I admit, I stabbed at the pedal,

There's the reason for activation. The problem comes from the difference of expectation between such as you who will brake with a pressure that you have decided is neccessary, albeit not progressive and those who merely stamp hard on the pedal.

[jont-]

This is why cars now have emergency brake assist (so if you hit them suddenly, then lift off because the ABS has activated my understanding is this keeps the brakes applied even if you let go of the pedal - I'm not sure at what point the brakes then release? Maybe when you stop, or kick the throttle?)

Nope.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/ ... assist-hba
Read the manual for your car.

Eta, just how many drivers out there understand the systems on their cars and how to use those systems to their advantage?
ESP, don't try to put on oppo, is an example.
Problem is, just how can drivers get to grip with these systems in a safe environment?

I don't have it on my car, so I haven't worried about how it works. Getting to grips with the systems it does have is exactly why I took it to the Porsche Silverstone facilities to have a play.

[akirk]

I've had the EBA (Emergency Brake Assist) on my Civic activate when not required. I was braking quickly/firmly for a dog that ran into the road. The violent braking that ensued surprised/startled me ... and the car behind me! He was a reasonable distance behind (luckily) but still locked up as I came to an almost standstill. I'd not experienced it in action before despite having tried out the ABS. The difference was, I admit, I stabbed at the pedal, When I tested the ABS I used a smooth increasing pressure push.

just one example of an autonomous system getting it wrong - believing you want one thing when you had something else in mind...
a little bit worrying

Alasdair

[fungus]

I believe it is good to try these devices out but always when alone in the car.
My experience is that very few people are aware of how to use them, that includes ABS brakes.

Any of the ADIs here able to tell how DVSA have altered their test criteria to suit ABS? As Astraist posted recently (and, AFAIK he's correct) best practice e-braking with ABS is to declutch.

How does that square with the old 'if it locks, release and reapply, and delutch just before stopping' principles?

The advice from the DVSA has been for a number of years now "that the advice given for emergency braking in non ABS vehicles may not be correct. Refer to the vehicle manufacturers hand book for the correct procedure in vehicles fitted with ABS."

I teach my pupils to, as Reg would put it, muller the brakes, clutch down as soon as the brakes bite, keep increasing pressure on the brake pedal and DO NOT RELEASE IT UNLESS THE EMERGENCY PASSES. There may possibly still be instructors out there who still insist that the ABS should not be activated.

Nigel.

[WhoseGeneration]

I teach my pupils to, as Reg would put it, muller the brakes, clutch down as soon as the brakes bite, keep increasing pressure on the brake pedal and DO NOT RELEASE IT UNLESS THE EMERGENCY PASSES. There may possibly still be instructors out there who still insist that the ABS should not be activated.

Nigel.

Plus, if applicable, keep steering to avoid hazard, I'd hope.

[fungus]

I teach my pupils to, as Reg would put it, muller the brakes, clutch down as soon as the brakes bite, keep increasing pressure on the brake pedal and DO NOT RELEASE IT UNLESS THE EMERGENCY PASSES. There may possibly still be instructors out there who still insist that the ABS should not be activated.

Nigel.

Plus, if applicable, keep steering to avoid hazard, I'd hope.

Yes.

Nigel.