EU - where did it go wrong?

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Rolyan
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby Rolyan » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:48 pm

mainbeam wrote:
Rolyan wrote: It's a matter of public record that in the last 25 years, a large percentage of legislation has come about as a direct result of the EU. In 2010, the government reported that 50% of the legislation that has 'significant impact' on the UK is a direct result of the EU. So hardly the 5% you report; that is far less than even the lowest estimate given so far.


You are reading but not comprehending. The misconception that you and others have is that EU laws are made by unelected bureaucrats that cannot be removed from office by the UK electorate. This is a myth that is peddled by the Leave campaign because it is an easy win for votes.

EU laws are made through negotiation by elected representatives of EU Member States. Our democratically elected representatives choose for us to be bound by these laws in the vast majority of cases. It is only on matters of the single market that QMV applies and in the vast majority of cases the UK is not outvoted.

You are conflating the volume of law made at the EU level with those laws being made contrary to the wishes of our elected representatives.

Rolyan wrote: EU regulations have binding legal force, and we cannot vote out those who introduce them."
This reaffirms your misunderstanding as to how these Regulations are made.



Rolyan wrote: I would rather the electorate be allowed to remove from power those who fail to deliver and/or enforce rules, laws and policies. However, I appreciate that you don't agree; you don't have to, that's democracy. Having been allowed a democratic vote I'm happy that the majority also want that democratic power returned to them.

This of course is simply a self-serving non-sequitur. Enough said.




Last year net migration from outside the EU was around 180,000. We control this migration. It appears that Government doesn't reduce migration because Government understands the UK needs migration. Government also understands the need for the single market notwithstanding when not in Government individuals may oppose it.


As I said in my first post, be careful what you wish for. Will those in power really leave the single market to free us from the regulations - particularly free movement of people - that many thought they were voting for? Or will they sign us up to the single market, accepting free movement of people without retaining our seat at the negotiating table?

I would encourage anyone who seriously wants to know the percentages of laws etc resulting from the EU to do their own research. The facts are out there. We have both given our positions.

If you think that the EU have not affected our laws, and that you can vote them out, then carry on believing it. Again, I would suggest that others do their own research.

Migration - again, do the research on what many leave voters actually wanted.

It won't affect the decision obviously, but it may help some remainers come to terms with the majority decision.

Gareth
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby Gareth » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:13 pm

From 'joining the euro' thread ...
hir wrote:All politically cohesive national systems, whether they be a federal system or a single country, rely on a mechanism of fiscal transfers from its wealthier regions to its poorer regions in order to try and achieve economic, political and social stability. This is effected through the national taxation system of each monetary area.

In the opening post in this thread I listed what I thought were four seeds of the current situation, but I think this highlights a fifth (or maybe a sixth), that of inequitable distribution of resources within the UK. One example is the disparity in spending on infrastructure, mentioned in a Guardian newspaper article a couple of years ago.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Gareth
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby Gareth » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:13 am

Another take in the Guardian newspaper suggests long term problems in UK politics is at the root of what happened.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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jont-
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby jont- » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:31 am

Gareth wrote:From 'joining the euro' thread ...
hir wrote:All politically cohesive national systems, whether they be a federal system or a single country, rely on a mechanism of fiscal transfers from its wealthier regions to its poorer regions in order to try and achieve economic, political and social stability. This is effected through the national taxation system of each monetary area.

In the opening post in this thread I listed what I thought were four seeds of the current situation, but I think this highlights a fifth (or maybe a sixth), that of inequitable distribution of resources within the UK. One example is the disparity in spending on infrastructure, mentioned in a Guardian newspaper article a couple of years ago.

And yet at the same time, yet /again/ I was late getting home last night because of our failure to build an airport that can cope with the demands of travellers in the SE (yes, delays at heathrow :roll: ), or build functional passport control systems (I've yet to be through a UK airport with e-gates where more than 2/3 of them are actually in use).

sussex2
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:41 am

Where did it go wrong?
It's easy really and any fool could have worked it out.
First it was the weather:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc_z7eTje3g

Then it was same sex marriage:

http://attitude.co.uk/daily-mail-column ... or-brexit/

There you go, simples!

sussex2
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:47 am

jont- wrote:
Gareth wrote:From 'joining the euro' thread ...
hir wrote:All politically cohesive national systems, whether they be a federal system or a single country, rely on a mechanism of fiscal transfers from its wealthier regions to its poorer regions in order to try and achieve economic, political and social stability. This is effected through the national taxation system of each monetary area.

In the opening post in this thread I listed what I thought were four seeds of the current situation, but I think this highlights a fifth (or maybe a sixth), that of inequitable distribution of resources within the UK. One example is the disparity in spending on infrastructure, mentioned in a Guardian newspaper article a couple of years ago.

And yet at the same time, yet /again/ I was late getting home last night because of our failure to build an airport that can cope with the demands of travellers in the SE (yes, delays at heathrow :roll: ), or build functional passport control systems (I've yet to be through a UK airport with e-gates where more than 2/3 of them are actually in use).


Interesting points in your last paragraph as I use LGW a lot.
You never know what is going to happen when you when you walk around the corner and see the queues for 'immigration' (North Terminal mostly)
It rarely takes less than 20 minutes to get through and can take more than an hour; despite the vast majority of passengers having UK or EU passports.
The new automatic gates which look like something Heath Robinson designed won't accept the latest UK passports!! And in any case there are not enough of them.
I've noticed the machines take longer processing UK passports than other electronically enables ones.

Rolyan
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby Rolyan » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:42 am

sussex2 wrote:
jont- wrote:
Gareth wrote:From 'joining the euro' thread ...
hir wrote:All politically cohesive national systems, whether they be a federal system or a single country, rely on a mechanism of fiscal transfers from its wealthier regions to its poorer regions in order to try and achieve economic, political and social stability. This is effected through the national taxation system of each monetary area.

In the opening post in this thread I listed what I thought were four seeds of the current situation, but I think this highlights a fifth (or maybe a sixth), that of inequitable distribution of resources within the UK. One example is the disparity in spending on infrastructure, mentioned in a Guardian newspaper article a couple of years ago.

And yet at the same time, yet /again/ I was late getting home last night because of our failure to build an airport that can cope with the demands of travellers in the SE (yes, delays at heathrow :roll: ), or build functional passport control systems (I've yet to be through a UK airport with e-gates where more than 2/3 of them are actually in use).


Interesting points in your last paragraph as I use LGW a lot.
You never know what is going to happen when you when you walk around the corner and see the queues for 'immigration' (North Terminal mostly)
It rarely takes less than 20 minutes to get through and can take more than an hour; despite the vast majority of passengers having UK or EU passports.
The new automatic gates which look like something Heath Robinson designed won't accept the latest UK passports!! And in any case there are not enough of them.
I've noticed the machines take longer processing UK passports than other electronically enables ones.

Just to keep things light hearted, at least once we leave the EU we can put back 'UK national only' passport lanes, which might speed it up a bit for you.

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jont-
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby jont- » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:51 am

Rolyan wrote:Just to keep things light hearted, at least once we leave the EU we can put back 'UK national only' passport lanes, which might speed it up a bit for you.

Better still, had we gone into Schengen we wouldn't have had to bother at all for most shorthaul flights :twisted:

Rolyan
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby Rolyan » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:55 am

jont- wrote:
Rolyan wrote:Just to keep things light hearted, at least once we leave the EU we can put back 'UK national only' passport lanes, which might speed it up a bit for you.

Better still, had we gone into Schengen we wouldn't have had to bother at all for most shorthaul flights :twisted:

True, but we would miss that feeling of superiority as we walked down an empty UK lane, laughing as all the poor johnny foreigners.

sussex2
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Re: EU - where did it go wrong?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:04 pm

An awful lot of people haven't got a clue what the little electronic symbol on their passport means, much less read the signs about which lane to get in.
There's an old trick for moving around airports speedily - walk quickly and look at the floor; never but never use eye contact with anyone else.
Another one is never check in bags and through any doorway or at the top of escalators turn left. The majority of people will instinctively turn right.
I can speak with some authority about this having spent decades in the airlines business.
Another is don't use moving floors - many nationalities are accustomed to stopping as soon as they get on, thus hindering your progress.
It's all a bit like advanced driving really of which a great part is exploiting the limitations of others.
For any further hints a small charge is made.
It used to be a coffee in the departure lounge but it seems Precious refuses to open up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zLuGwQyLyE


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