EU - where did it go wrong?

[Rolyan]

For those I know who voted leave, this was at the heart of the issue, people who set our law but who are not accountable to the people they control, that is not democratic and as a country we believe in democracy.

Alasdair

Exactly.

[userLeft1]

...But those like yourself and others in remain who are intent on stirring up the divisions, hatred and dissatisfaction...

It worked for the Leave campaign.

I appreciate that you need to believe that.

It would be naïve to believe it didn't. I can appreciate why you need to convince yourself that those aspects of the Leave campaign had little or no affect on a sufficient number of people to result in a marginal difference. The difficultly you have is in convincing those who are neither naïve nor in denial that they must be wrong.

[Strangely Brown]

The reason it is such a bad idea is because it is a union that is being brought about without the consent of the people. We have been brought this far into it without ever being asked if it is what we want. You are quite vociferous that you are unable to have your voice heard in Westminster yet you ask why not being able to have your voice heard in the EU is such a bad thing?

Where have I said my voice isn't heard in the EU?

That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?

ETA: Have another read of Frederick Forsyth - he explains it far better than I will - and then ask again if you still think it is a good idea.

[userLeft1]

Okay, you are correct that as an individual you don't have that power, but no-one does anywhere in the world! But as a people we absolutely do have that power as was demonstrated on Thursday by the majority voting against the view of the politicians.

Alasdair

That is absolutely incorrect. The referendum result is not legally binding and we had to be given it by those in power. The only reason we we're given it was because of narrow party political interests, not a sense of letting the people decide the issue.

[userLeft1]

That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?

That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

[Strangely Brown]

That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?

That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

The European parliament are not the ones that hold the power in the EU. We get to vote for MEPs but they are not the people who make the decisions.

[jont-]

That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?

That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

The European parliament are not the ones that hold the power in the EU. We get to vote for MEPs but they are not the people who make the decisions.

We don't get to vote for the UK civil service either. Even if Yes Minister was supposed to be a comedy, not a documentary

[Strangely Brown]

Okay, you are correct that as an individual you don't have that power, but no-one does anywhere in the world! But as a people we absolutely do have that power as was demonstrated on Thursday by the majority voting against the view of the politicians.

Alasdair

That is absolutely incorrect. The referendum result is not legally binding and we had to be given it by those in power. The only reason we we're given it was because of narrow party political interests, not a sense of letting the people decide the issue.

The result may not be legally binding but any government that fails to uphold the result would be out at the next election. That's called democracy. All the MPs that are talking about blocking the exit and ignoring the result are doing themselves no favours. They are merely confirming the fact that the Westminster elite do not listen to the electorate. How long do you think they will last?

[Strangely Brown]

That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?

That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

The European parliament are not the ones that hold the power in the EU. We get to vote for MEPs but they are not the people who make the decisions.

We don't get to vote for the UK civil service either. Even if Yes Minister was supposed to be a comedy, not a documentary

Correct. But they are appointed, and can be removed, by the people that we DO vote for. It's the other way round in the EU. The people we vote for have no power over the people that make the decisions.

[Horse]

Because we can vote Westminster MPs out, we can't alter those in control in the EU.

I have no chance of having my views represented at westminster since I disagree with both major parties policies - if you live in a "safe" constituency, unless you agree with the "safe" party, your vote has /no/ value. At least the EU has PR, so my vote has some value.

Intriguingly, in several areas the voters went against the stated views of their MP, e.g. Wokingham's John Redwood - who is staunchly anti-EU - was not supported by constituents who instead voted 'remain'.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... i-11530631

In a similar vein, there was a local Labour candidate bleating about Corbyn not being good enough to get the party into power. Errr Hello, you're a candidate, not an MP, so where does your 'power' to choose the leader come from? You have no more right than any other party member - all of whom voted Corbyn in!

The Filly asked this morning, in the light of Cameron, Osborne, potentially Corby, the EU Commisioner and now the footy manager: is this country in danger of running out of swords for people to fall on?