akirk wrote:For those I know who voted leave, this was at the heart of the issue, people who set our law but who are not accountable to the people they control, that is not democratic and as a country we believe in democracy.
Alasdair
Exactly.
akirk wrote:For those I know who voted leave, this was at the heart of the issue, people who set our law but who are not accountable to the people they control, that is not democratic and as a country we believe in democracy.
Alasdair
Rolyan wrote:mainbeam wrote:Rolyan wrote:...But those like yourself and others in remain who are intent on stirring up the divisions, hatred and dissatisfaction...
It worked for the Leave campaign.
I appreciate that you need to believe that.
jont- wrote:Strangely Brown wrote:The reason it is such a bad idea is because it is a union that is being brought about without the consent of the people. We have been brought this far into it without ever being asked if it is what we want. You are quite vociferous that you are unable to have your voice heard in Westminster yet you ask why not being able to have your voice heard in the EU is such a bad thing?
Where have I said my voice isn't heard in the EU?
akirk wrote:Okay, you are correct that as an individual you don't have that power, but no-one does anywhere in the world! But as a people we absolutely do have that power as was demonstrated on Thursday by the majority voting against the view of the politicians.
Alasdair
Strangely Brown wrote:
That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?
mainbeam wrote:Strangely Brown wrote:
That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?
That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.
Strangely Brown wrote:mainbeam wrote:Strangely Brown wrote:
That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?
That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.
The European parliament are not the ones that hold the power in the EU. We get to vote for MEPs but they are not the people who make the decisions.
mainbeam wrote:akirk wrote:Okay, you are correct that as an individual you don't have that power, but no-one does anywhere in the world! But as a people we absolutely do have that power as was demonstrated on Thursday by the majority voting against the view of the politicians.
Alasdair
That is absolutely incorrect. The referendum result is not legally binding and we had to be given it by those in power. The only reason we we're given it was because of narrow party political interests, not a sense of letting the people decide the issue.
jont- wrote:Strangely Brown wrote:mainbeam wrote:Strangely Brown wrote:
That's the whole point! Your voice is not and cannot be heard by the EU. Further integration will only cement that yet you ask why it is such a bad idea?
That is also incorrect. Your voice is - and by implication can be - heard by the EU through our elected representatives. At the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.
The European parliament are not the ones that hold the power in the EU. We get to vote for MEPs but they are not the people who make the decisions.
We don't get to vote for the UK civil service either. Even if Yes Minister was supposed to be a comedy, not a documentary
jont- wrote:I have no chance of having my views represented at westminster since I disagree with both major parties policies - if you live in a "safe" constituency, unless you agree with the "safe" party, your vote has /no/ value. At least the EU has PR, so my vote has some value.akirk wrote:Because we can vote Westminster MPs out, we can't alter those in control in the EU.
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