Advanced Driving Hub

So as some of you may know I help on the "Driver Alertness' course (NDAC) for drivers who would have been prosecuted for driving without due care.

Last week I had someone who when faced with a hill start in my car, panicked and exclaimed: "I can't to this!". After me talking her gently through and her still stalling/rolling-back after the 2nd attempt, I used my dual controls to help her with the clutch and away we went. I wasn't expecting this as her driving otherwise was a good average.

When we pulled-in to talk it through, it seems she's lost the 'knack' (her words) as her own car has 'hill-hold'! A great example of modern tech in some cars potentially de-skilling a driver. Hill-hold is still on a minority of cars and when it's on nearly all I guess it won't be a problem but until then...

One of SWMBOs colleagues came to visit our house a little while back. She stalled the car at the top of our lane - "I haven't had to do a hill start in years" - living in the fens it's rarely a necessity, unless you live on one of the few hills around (if 20m above sea level can be called a hill)

/edit to add, I'm surprised you're surprised by the experience. I thought deskilling was a well known problem in the aviation sector?

jont- wrote:One of SWMBOs colleagues came to visit our house a little while back. She stalled the car at the top of our lane - "I haven't had to do a hill start in years" - living in the fens it's rarely a necessity, unless you live on one of the few hills around (if 20m above sea level can be called a hill)

jont- wrote:/edit to add, I'm surprised you're surprised by the experience. I thought deskilling was a well known problem in the aviation sector?

I'm surprised you were surprised by my surprise...no let's not go there...

I suppose it brought it home to me how serious this problem can be...sitting alongside what was a perfectly average (or even good) driver I wasn't expecting such a lack of confidence and skill in something I don't think about. I don't know what she would have done had it been say a hire or courtesy car, without me being there. She was quite stressed by the whole experience - thankfully the van driver behind was very patient but we still slipped back a couple of feet before finally getting going (with my help).

Aviation - yes commercial pilots are becoming increasingly detached from actually flying the plane...more computer operators - but still overall safety has never been better.

martine wrote: I suppose it brought it home to me how serious this problem can be...sitting alongside what was a perfectly average (or even good) driver I wasn't expecting such a lack of confidence and skill in something I don't think about.

This is why areas such as skid control training are potentially counter-productive. The trainee leaves the session with increased confidence - but the skill rapidly falls away when not practiced.

How about traction control, active suspension and linked brakes on motorcycles? What happens when the rider jumps on something without these. The first two can lull riders into their abilities being a lot greater than the are. The last one can be beneficial but is why I always suggest to riders they use both ... for those times when on something else without it.

During training sessions when someone had bought a bike with ABS, I'd get them to provoke it into working so they knew what it felt like. Also it would show them how good brakes and tyres can be.

Then I'd spend the rest of the session encouraging them to ride in such a way that they wouldn't need it

I've got hill-start assist on my Citigo.

I can easily forget it's there simply because I always use the handbrake so I literally never need to make use of it.

But yeah, it's one of those things that means I don't really want to let my sister drive my car because she'll discover the wonderful thing which makes it so much easier to start on hills, and then next thing we know she'll be one of those people who just stand on their footbrake every time she's stationary with the brake lights glaring into your eyes on a wet and dark evening.

*insert annoyed sigh*

I sometimes find hill start assist useful in an automatic car (well, let's say a dual clutch equipped car which would otherwise roll back if you release the footbrake before pressing the clutch - and don't either left foot brake or use the handbrake). In my current manual Hyundai I find it mildly irritating; if I get the timing wrong and move too quickly from holding the car on the footbrake to pressing the accelerator and releasing the clutch, I feel the sensation of trying to move off when the brake is still applied. Then when the car starts to move forwards it isn't perfectly smooth. The solution is to use the handbrake to hold the car, not the footbrake, but that introduces another issue. It is difficult on a slope to transition after stopping from footbrake to handbrake without a slight irritating roll-back. How do others cope? The challenges of perfectionism.

As an aside, a Nissan Quashqai I drove recently has a dash light which illuminates to tell you when hill start assist is activated. I found that helpful.

waremark wrote:It is difficult on a slope to transition after stopping from footbrake to handbrake without a slight irritating roll-back. How do others cope?

Does that happen if you apply the handbrake before you release the footbrake?

David

something else I've noticed as a cyclist is blind spot warning lights in the wing mirrors of cars I'm overtaking... how long before drivers of these become reliant on that little red/amber light and stops doing shoulder checks? Then having problems in cars without them...