hir wrote:Rolyan wrote:
P.S. We would all do well to realise that the leave camp is not made up of idealistic old fogies trying to get back to some long forgotten dream. That is pure simplistic claptrap of the worst kind; it weakens the argument of any remainer that uses it, and is either foolhardy ignorance or the devious machinations of a spoilt loser.
Brilliant. I like your spirit.
Now that you have poured scorn on the simplistic claptrap offered up by myself, perhaps you can explain in less emotive terms exactly how you envisage the UK will be a better place post-Brexit, please.
I look forward to your considered argument. As I've intimated elsewhere...
"a better future for our children" is too vague an argument, in fact it's not an argument in any intelligible sense. It is a statement of opinion without supporting argument. I would like to know how and in what ways the Leavers believe the future will be better for our children post-Brexit, please.
A better future for our children was not written as a political standpoint, as you well know. It was made to point out that not only the remainers care about the younger generation.
Re pouring scorn on your description of the leavers, your comments deserve that scorn. It is simplistic nonsense to try to suggest that leavers are wanting to return to pre EU days. Even if some did (and I haven't personally met any) you cannot group everyone together and dismiss them in such a way. So yes, if you use that argument it is simplistic claptrap. The thing is, I think you knew that when you wrote it; as the saying goes, you can't kid a kidder.
Re my reasons for wanting to leave, they are too many and complex to deal with on a forum. You and I both know that to make it manageable, the have to be reduced to 1 sentence arguments, allowing everyone to bicker but with no real attempt at understanding. But on the assumption that it is a serious question from you, here's a just can few reasons I voted to leave:
1) to get our contributions back - I believe we can spend it more wisely than EU decided subsidies.
2) to control our border more effectively, without free access.
3) to control our own laws. In the last 25 years a quarter of our acts of Parliament originated in the EU.
4) give our courts the final say
5) take ourselves out of the costly and beaurocratic EU.
6) stop funding the European Commission.
7) don't allow the proposed new members free access.
All the above, plus setting our own VAT, fisheries policy, energy policy, etc etc etc. Plus LOTS more. All of which I believe are good for my family and the country.
As I am now off to mount a mirror, I will be unavailable for some time.