The EU - Leave or Remain?

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Rolyan
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Rolyan » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:45 pm

ChristianAB wrote:Seriously people, give TheInsanity1234 a break.

On top of that, this has been very traumatic for a large part of the British people and thus cannot and will not heal overnight.

The facts are simple: despite all that doom and gloom talk, the EU cannot simply toss around the fifth largest economy in the world and what 'used' to be the second largest in Europe. But hurt people don't care about facts, here and in the EU.
Just as the Remainers dismissed the Leavers before the vote and paid a hefty price, now the Leavers should be working hard to appease and heal the trauma of the Remainers or they too may suffer disproportionally from it.
Think about what it took to oust Blatter from FIFA. That's how bad those bureaucrats in the EU will cling to their privileges. It's doable, but not if the British don't go at each other indefinitely. Just look at Scotland. As clueless as Nicola Sturgeon is, she is nonetheless damn' serious.

So please people. The war is may not be over, but after such a bloodied battle, it's time to attend to the wounded on both sides and show compassion.

Apart from a little bit of light banter (far less than he's doled out to others) I haven't seen any real issues with posters getting at Insanity1234. In fact, I've seen far more agression and lack of understanding from him; most posters have put that down to his youth, politely and without rancour.

I agree that we need to heal any rifts and again, I've seen very balanced views on here. In fact, all the leavers I know are trying to honestly and fairly explain their position, sometimes in the face of open hostility. My partner was upset by the hostile attitude in College by remainers on Monday, from her peers including working colleagues and lecturers.

We do need to work together, but I feel that I and other leavers spend more time trying to deny we are racists than in working with others to condemn racism. We spend more time trying to explain the misconception about the alleged 'lie' about the promise to fund the NHS than we do on working where to spend it. The list goes on.

I knew there would be disapointment after the vote, and some disagreement, but I'm slightly surprised at the animosity from people who I would have expected to be more balanced, fair and reasonable than I've seen so far.

sussex2
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:43 am

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby sussex2 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:20 am

Rolyan wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:Seriously people, give TheInsanity1234 a break.

On top of that, this has been very traumatic for a large part of the British people and thus cannot and will not heal overnight.

The facts are simple: despite all that doom and gloom talk, the EU cannot simply toss around the fifth largest economy in the world and what 'used' to be the second largest in Europe. But hurt people don't care about facts, here and in the EU.
Just as the Remainers dismissed the Leavers before the vote and paid a hefty price, now the Leavers should be working hard to appease and heal the trauma of the Remainers or they too may suffer disproportionally from it.
Think about what it took to oust Blatter from FIFA. That's how bad those bureaucrats in the EU will cling to their privileges. It's doable, but not if the British don't go at each other indefinitely. Just look at Scotland. As clueless as Nicola Sturgeon is, she is nonetheless damn' serious.

So please people. The war is may not be over, but after such a bloodied battle, it's time to attend to the wounded on both sides and show compassion.

Apart from a little bit of light banter (far less than he's doled out to others) I haven't seen any real issues with posters getting at Insanity1234. In fact, I've seen far more agression and lack of understanding from him; most posters have put that down to his youth, politely and without rancour.

I agree that we need to heal any rifts and again, I've seen very balanced views on here. In fact, all the leavers I know are trying to honestly and fairly explain their position, sometimes in the face of open hostility. My partner was upset by the hostile attitude in College by remainers on Monday, from her peers including working colleagues and lecturers.

We do need to work together, but I feel that I and other leavers spend more time trying to deny we are racists than in working with others to condemn racism. We spend more time trying to explain the misconception about the alleged 'lie' about the promise to fund the NHS than we do on working where to spend it. The list goes on.

I knew there would be disapointment after the vote, and some disagreement, but I'm slightly surprised at the animosity from people who I would have expected to be more balanced, fair and reasonable than I've seen so far.


Surely if you are having to spend so much time explaining you are not racist, then the leave campaign has done its job.
As for healing rifts then I honestly do not believe they will ever be healed in the lifetime of anyone the cemetery side of 50.
The damage has been done.

sussex2
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:43 am

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby sussex2 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:26 am

In respect of 'damage done' a good friend from Northern Ireland has been having nightmares at the prospect of more civil strife in the province.
The ripples and consequences of last week and the weeks and months/years to come are going to be far reaching.

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Strangely Brown
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:24 pm

sussex2 wrote:Surely if you are having to spend so much time explaining you are not racist, then the leave campaign has done its job.


Errr, isn't that the other way round? It is the remain campaign that has painted leavers as racist. Facts become irrelevant once the name calling starts.

Rolyan
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Rolyan » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:31 pm

sussex2 wrote:
Rolyan wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:Seriously people, give TheInsanity1234 a break.

On top of that, this has been very traumatic for a large part of the British people and thus cannot and will not heal overnight.

The facts are simple: despite all that doom and gloom talk, the EU cannot simply toss around the fifth largest economy in the world and what 'used' to be the second largest in Europe. But hurt people don't care about facts, here and in the EU.
Just as the Remainers dismissed the Leavers before the vote and paid a hefty price, now the Leavers should be working hard to appease and heal the trauma of the Remainers or they too may suffer disproportionally from it.
Think about what it took to oust Blatter from FIFA. That's how bad those bureaucrats in the EU will cling to their privileges. It's doable, but not if the British don't go at each other indefinitely. Just look at Scotland. As clueless as Nicola Sturgeon is, she is nonetheless damn' serious.

So please people. The war is may not be over, but after such a bloodied battle, it's time to attend to the wounded on both sides and show compassion.

Apart from a little bit of light banter (far less than he's doled out to others) I haven't seen any real issues with posters getting at Insanity1234. In fact, I've seen far more agression and lack of understanding from him; most posters have put that down to his youth, politely and without rancour.

I agree that we need to heal any rifts and again, I've seen very balanced views on here. In fact, all the leavers I know are trying to honestly and fairly explain their position, sometimes in the face of open hostility. My partner was upset by the hostile attitude in College by remainers on Monday, from her peers including working colleagues and lecturers.

We do need to work together, but I feel that I and other leavers spend more time trying to deny we are racists than in working with others to condemn racism. We spend more time trying to explain the misconception about the alleged 'lie' about the promise to fund the NHS than we do on working where to spend it. The list goes on.

I knew there would be disapointment after the vote, and some disagreement, but I'm slightly surprised at the animosity from people who I would have expected to be more balanced, fair and reasonable than I've seen so far.


Surely if you are having to spend so much time explaining you are not racist, then the leave campaign has done its job.
As for healing rifts then I honestly do not believe they will ever be healed in the lifetime of anyone the cemetery side of 50.
The damage has been done.

I disagree with you on so many counts we are unlikely to ever agree.

I admit to being surprised by the extent and depth of hatred that I've witnessed from many remain voters. It has been truly disturbing. However, I hope that others will be more prepared than you are to work together in an attempt to move forward.

Rolyan
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Rolyan » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:35 pm

sussex2 wrote:In respect of 'damage done' a good friend from Northern Ireland has been having nightmares at the prospect of more civil strife in the province.
The ripples and consequences of last week and the weeks and months/years to come are going to be far reaching.

They certainly are. We hope everyone will share in the improvements and benefits to come.

That will be made easier if everyone works together for the common good, despite their own voting preferences. I appreciate that some are intent in moaning, and hope for the worst simply so that they can say I told you so. But I remain confident that eventually most will get over their disappointment at losing and will see that it was indeed a good thing.

Rolyan
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Rolyan » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:40 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
sussex2 wrote:Surely if you are having to spend so much time explaining you are not racist, then the leave campaign has done its job.


Errr, isn't that the other way round? It is the remain campaign that has painted leavers as racist. Facts become irrelevant once the name calling starts.

Exactly.

I was speaking to someone this morning about these 'debates' and he said why waste your time. The remainers are so disgruntled at not getting their own way that they will not listen to any reason, will not be prepared to discuss facts and will continue their desire to find a scapegoat for their failure to keep the status quo.

Sussex2's post certainly supports that view.

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ChristianAB
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby ChristianAB » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:26 pm

compassion: sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

That is, even when those others behave badly due to their recent trauma.

Rolyan
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Rolyan » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:34 pm

ChristianAB wrote:compassion: sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

That is, even when those others behave badly due to their recent trauma.

Agreed.

Perhaps an attempt by the remainers to try and understand that most leavers are not the simplistic racist xenophobes they are painting them out to be would go some way to generating some compassion. They have to accept some responsibility for the divisions they are creating.

Keithrm
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:01 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: The EU - Leave or Remain?

Postby Keithrm » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:45 am

I am the cemetery side of 50 and have to say in response to the claims by the inners that I have ruined the future for our children and their children
may I say, in my opinion, I have helped to save it, that is if the politicians follow it through and don't shaft us.
The EU is a doomed and failed project we are better off doing our own thing ASAP.
That's me having my say on things, very mild rant over...


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