I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
Astraist
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby Astraist » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:39 am

sussex2 wrote:It soon became apparent that it wasn't working as collisions (especially fatal ones) increased and pollution hardly changed.[...]
As a result traffic flowed more smoothly and collisions were reduced.


The lack of reduction in pollution would suggest that people simply didn't change speed. But even if people we to be forced to drive at a slower speed, it doesn't always have an effect, although such instances are quite rare.

The biggest Motorway in Israel, the M6, had the speed limit in it's northern section increased from 110km/h to 120. These was a (small) reduction in collisions, and that's with speed enforcement that is liberal enough for the actual speed to be within 10k excess of the posted limit.

sussex2
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:42 am

'Which is 'safer':
A 'good' driver continuously driving at their limits
A 'poor' driver staying within their limits'

Reminds me of an airline saying - 'There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots'

sussex2
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:49 am

Astraist wrote:
sussex2 wrote:It soon became apparent that it wasn't working as collisions (especially fatal ones) increased and pollution hardly changed.[...]
As a result traffic flowed more smoothly and collisions were reduced.


The lack of reduction in pollution would suggest that people simply didn't change speed. But even if people we to be forced to drive at a slower speed, it doesn't always have an effect, although such instances are quite rare.

The biggest Motorway in Israel, the M6, had the speed limit in it's northern section increased from 110km/h to 120. These was a (small) reduction in collisions, and that's with speed enforcement that is liberal enough for the actual speed to be within 10k excess of the posted limit.


It's 7 percent in Spain and particularly in Catalunya they have fallen in love with speed cameras.
Perhaps the reason could be less bunching of traffic at a higher speed.
Barcelona is also in a 'bowl' surrounded by mountains which may or may not have affected the outcome.

Astraist
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby Astraist » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:53 am

That's also true.

The higher the speed, the greater the margin left between cars. And I am not talking meters here, but seconds of margin.

sussex2
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Yes it has spaced the traffic out a bit - not the sights of Barcelona most tourists see:

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/505388389407466848/

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Horse
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby Horse » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:06 pm

akirk wrote: In my view there are
a couple of outcomes of improving driving / AD
- raise the level at which you drive with the same contingency margin
- maintain the level at which you drive with an increased contingency margin
- raise the level at which you drive, but not as high as you could - and therefore also increase the contingency margin
- raise the level beyond where you should and reduce the contingency margin!

I would hope that most of us aim for the third, but in theory any of the first three are fine...
the first won't improve accident stats
the second two will
the fourth makes it worse


It's probably worth investigating (for want of a better word) exactly which elements of AD actually responsible for any improvements in safety. I've already given my thoughts on that - and they are not just confined to AD-level training!
:soap:
My own views. For better or worse :)

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akirk
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby akirk » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:33 pm

true, that is why I wasn't directly implying that AD training = more safety, it can though give more contingency which = more margin.

e.g.
- an ability to drive around a corner at 50 instead of 30, could mean you carry on driving around it at 30, or even at 40, but you are now 20-40% below your capability, rather than on your capability level = more contingency = more safety from that one aspect of car control... (of course lots of other considerations need to come into play, e.g. how the increased speed affects others / the increased risk of hitting the broken down car around the corner / etc...)

Alasdair

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Horse
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby Horse » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:20 pm

akirk wrote: (of course lots of other considerations need to come into play, e.g. how the increased speed affects others / the increased risk of hitting the broken down car around the corner / etc...)


That sounds horribly like you're arguing against AD :lol:

Things that can't be altered are the 'scientific' aspects: reaction time and minimum braking distance*. What can be influenced are the elements I've mentioned, and they're not unique to AD.

* And that could pretty much be achieved by anyone with ABS stamping on the pedal.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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akirk
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby akirk » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:41 pm

If you are talking about doing AD to increase safety, then I do believe there is possibly a cap on what you need to do - i.e. a level above the learner test, but well below things like IAM Masters etc. - My driver to go further was not to increase my safety, but for the satisfaction in driving a car as well as I can...

So, no, AD is not all about safety - that is one element... It is Advanced Driving, not Safer Driving :D

Alasdair

ancient
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Re: I'm resigned to driving slower and slower.

Postby ancient » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:09 am

sussex2 wrote:
martine wrote:
sussex2 wrote:At very least by making people have proper eye tests before being given a licence; to be repeated at regular intervals whilst they hold the licence.
I and a few of my veteran colleagues are firmly convinced that this single measure could help a lot.

Why?


If you mean my last sentence it is because we/I think that poor eyesight, and in particular tunnel vision, is widespread and often not diagnosed.

The thing is, it is not just physically caused tunnel vision, most people are simply unaware of anything beyond a small part of their central vision, even when their eyes are working properly. I teach martial arts and it is a common thing when I ask a student to tell me where their partner's feet are, for them to tilt their head down to look: Cue an exercise to show them how much they can see without moving their heads (but simply were not aware was there).


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