The state of roads.

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Astraist
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby Astraist » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:31 pm

sussex2 wrote:You can go skiing a 90 minute drive from the Mediterranean coast ;) There are ice warnings in the suburbs of Barcelona and the country as a whole is one of the most mountainous in Europe; snow chains/tyres are compulsory in large tracts of the country.
There is less traffic density of course and this helps a great deal.


I've actually been to Northern Spain a couple of times. It is a more European part of the country both in terms of weather but also in behavioral and adminstrative terms, as it were. The state of roads, as well as driver behavior, is in accordance with that.

In historic Barcelona, they actually trimmed the edges of buildings in order to extended vision in junctions, not to mention their multiple (and very complex, to me) roundabouts.

Compared to that, the rest of Spain is more Medditernean not just in terms of weather but in just being entirely disfunctional. The two parts of the country are not unlikely to split ways in the future, and we should inspect them as seperate.

It's also much the same with Italy: North of Rome it's just a part of Austria where people for some reasons speak Italian. Going south, I never think I was more terrified to be on the road, except for Chinese roads.

sussex2
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby sussex2 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:04 am

Spain is made up of autonomous states and there are several official languages; this brings about the marked differences region to region.
There has been a huge move in the last 30 years to improve the infrastructure of road and rail. This has resulted in the largest motorway and fast rail links in the EU.

It's difficult to compare because of the density of traffic and population in parts of the UK and our much older transport infrastructure.
An old road system such as ours is like an old car, or an old person :) and needs pretty much constant upkeep and maintenance.

If you get me started on the cart track that is the A27 hereabouts this will be a very long thread :)

TripleS
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Location: Briggswath

Re: The state of roads.

Postby TripleS » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:44 pm

Jonquirk wrote:Last year a road near me had all its potholes fixed and all the ironworks levelled up. Great. For about a month. Then they tarred and feathered, sorry, stone dressed the whole road leaving all the ironworks depressed again. I get reminded every time I cycle along it.


Actually, I understand it is officially known as 'surface dressing' - which sounds as if it might have some legitimacy(1) - but to most of us it is known as 'tar and chippings' - which has never been more that a cheap and nasty job that has no durability, and quickly gets us back to a road condition that is no better (and could even be worse) than what we had but a short time before.

(1) rather like 'Traffic Management', which again sounds very plausible, but all too often ends up creating a great deal of congestion that we not be suffering. If anybody wants to learn how to create a real ballsup in anything to do with road traffic, have a trip to Scarborough. Make it a short visit though, you'll probably be quite relieved to get away again - eventually.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

WhoseGeneration
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby WhoseGeneration » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:11 pm

sussex2 wrote:Slight drift, hope you enjoyed the North as it is one of my favourite places. I'd move to San Sebastian (Donostia) tomorrow if I could.
The trip on the 'economy' ferry to Santander is worth a forum of its own though :roll:


Yes, enjoyed it. Stayed at an hotel at Playa de Brria, near Santona.
Truth is, I was surprised at how the whole area "presented". Didn't appear to be part of a country with many economic problems.
I actually resented how much better it appeared, in many ways, than here in the UK, where we're supposed to be more economically successful.

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akirk
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Location: Bristol

Re: The state of roads.

Postby akirk » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:46 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:
sussex2 wrote:Slight drift, hope you enjoyed the North as it is one of my favourite places. I'd move to San Sebastian (Donostia) tomorrow if I could.
The trip on the 'economy' ferry to Santander is worth a forum of its own though :roll:


Yes, enjoyed it. Stayed at an hotel at Playa de Brria, near Santona.
Truth is, I was surprised at how the whole area "presented". Didn't appear to be part of a country with many economic problems.
I actually resented how much better it appeared, in many ways, than here in the UK, where we're supposed to be more economically successful.


not sure we are really more successful - lots of smoke and mirrors!
and hasn't there been quite a bit of EU subsidy into Spain?

Alasdair

TheInsanity1234
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:08 pm

I believe there was a Top Gear challenge where they went to Spain and the Trio discovered lots of empty villages of really nice houses which were empty because the government had poured loads of money into building houses but none of the citizens had the money to purchase them.

sussex2
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby sussex2 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:10 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote:I believe there was a Top Gear challenge where they went to Spain and the Trio discovered lots of empty villages of really nice houses which were empty because the government had poured loads of money into building houses but none of the citizens had the money to purchase them.


Ah, but don't you see - they built the roads first ;)
You'll also generally find that even before houses are built roads, including the many pedestrian crossings, the gas, water and electricity are laid on before the actual houses are put up.

sussex2
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby sussex2 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:22 am

akirk wrote:
WhoseGeneration wrote:
sussex2 wrote:Slight drift, hope you enjoyed the North as it is one of my favourite places. I'd move to San Sebastian (Donostia) tomorrow if I could.
The trip on the 'economy' ferry to Santander is worth a forum of its own though :roll:


Yes, enjoyed it. Stayed at an hotel at Playa de Brria, near Santona.
Truth is, I was surprised at how the whole area "presented". Didn't appear to be part of a country with many economic problems.
I actually resented how much better it appeared, in many ways, than here in the UK, where we're supposed to be more economically successful.


not sure we are really more successful - lots of smoke and mirrors!
and hasn't there been quite a bit of EU subsidy into Spain?

Alasdair


It is indeed a lovely and highly prosperous part of the country. It is also an autonomous state with its' own police force, parliament and tax gathering powers; as indeed is Catalunya on the opposite coast and a few others.
These autonomous states have a high degree of say in local investment (Madrid being no great fan of many)and will attract that investment for the benefit of the particular state.
You cannot regard Spain as being one country but this may not be apparent to the casual visitor.

To be honest it's not comparing eggs with eggs either. The general infrastructure is not as old or as heavily used as in the more densely populated UK.
What is true is that both state and central governments give fluidity of traffic (and the associated infrastructure) great importance.
At peak times, particularly holidays, huge operations are put into place to ease traffic flow e.g. an eight lane road will have six lanes in one direction and two in the other.

Of interest is that the Spanish railways were often engineered and/or built by UK companies, which had the luxury of space and built them with a wider than standard gauge. It is generally only the high speed lines that have the standard gauge.
An inherited anomaly is that platform 1 is often, as in the UK, the up-line to the capital.

How any of that fixes our battered roads I've no idea :)

Silk
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Location: South Glos.

Re: The state of roads.

Postby Silk » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:49 pm

WhoseGeneration wrote:Just back from a holiday in Northern Spain.
Roads immaculate.
Unlike here.
Why?


:soap:

People should get a life and stop moaning. I drove to and from Cornwall on Friday. Apart from the road works where they're building the "missing link" on the A30 the roads are generally excellent. In fact, the majority of our motorways and trunk roads are of a high standard.

If you live somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, like Dorset, it stands to reason the roads are going to be crap. Live with it or move somewhere more civilised.

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StressedDave
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Re: The state of roads.

Postby StressedDave » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:54 pm

I don't believe that Bristol could ever be described as civilised...
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