All change

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
TripleS
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Re: All change

Postby TripleS » Fri May 20, 2016 4:46 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Yes, it had swing axles, like the Corvair - they pivoted at the differential, so when the rear end was light, the wheels turned in at the bottom.

From the link above:

Image


Yes, thank you, Nick: that illustrates it very well.

Incidentally, the Jaguar E-Type (introduced in 1961) and the Jaguar Mark 10 saloon, and several other models that followed, also had a rear suspension design in which the drive shaft served as a suspension link, but I don't think they exhibited the extremes of camber that the Triumph Herald did. I suppose the basic principle is one thing, and the effective geometry is another.

Imsensible
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Re: All change

Postby Imsensible » Fri May 20, 2016 5:25 pm

Silk wrote:
Imsensible wrote:Where you get the idea of tracksuit and trainers eludes me. It's just another case of you going from one extreme to another. There are many mainstream cars that look more interesting than a Skoda Octavia. Skoda and VW designers seem to have the most boring and Sombre ideas in the car industry. I don't wear tracksuits. I do wear trainers... probably a bit too modern for you. ;)


I remember back in the day on "uk.rec.driving" we had a poster who would constantly have a dig at everyone else's choice of car but, when asked what he drove, he went all Boris Johnson. The name escapes me, but I have a feeling you may know who it is. ;-) ;-)


Never even heard of "uk.rec.driving", so it wasn't me. Sorry to disappoint you. ADUK and this forum are the only ones I frequented, and only then very rarely. Once or twice I posted on pistonheads.

What I drive is nobody else's business, and if I told you what cars I own/owned/drive/driven, your thoughts on them wouldn't alter my personal opinions. And to be honest, I don't expect my views to change the opinion of others regarding their own car choice.

But if people choose to announce what they do own/drive on a forum, I am happy to share my views ;)

Imsensible
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Re: All change

Postby Imsensible » Fri May 20, 2016 5:37 pm

Gareth wrote:
Imsensible wrote:Too many modern cars feel sterile. Competent, but they don't induce any real emotion.

If you expect emotion to come from outside, maybe you're approaching life wrong - standing to one side, looking on, instead of getting involved, being fully absorbed by what you're doing.


Not quite sure how you equate sterility and boring with standing to one side and not being fully absorbed. I can only assume that your house is completely monochrome, as colours won't affect how you feel at home.

I've driven plenty of cars, some are awful, some are good. Some are boring and some produce other emotions. It is precisely the kind of mental and physical interaction that some cars engender that makes them more interesting and fun to drive. If you don't understand that, I suggest you go and try some less conventional cars to experience it ;)

Imsensible
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Re: All change

Postby Imsensible » Fri May 20, 2016 6:10 pm

StressedDave wrote:
Imsensible wrote:I have to agree with you on this. Too many modern cars feel sterile. Competent, but they don't induce any real emotion. I drove a couple of Seat Ibiza's, one with 140hp, and they both felt heavy and numb. Not good for a small car. Same with the VX Corsa and other cars I've tried. The last Mazda 2 or current Suzuki Swift feel far more 'alive' and responsive. Many modern cars seem to have the same problem. Too much weight, too many gadgets etc, etc.

I think you'll find the problem is more to do with focus groups employed by the motor manufacturers, e.g. people want light steering for parking - let's remove nearly all feel from it rather than recognising manoeuvring speeds and lightening it for that particular manoeuvre.

It's not in the least bit difficult to add response to car behaviour. Although in the case of my car, I think they went a little too far. It's like the 1990s have asked for its hatchback back.


Overly light steering is common these days, but many cars feel sluggish when changing direction, 'stodgy', generally heavy and don't ever seem to get in sync with the road. It's difficult to define what is different and why any manufacturer would want them that way.

My Suzuki Swift and Swift Sport were very different to each other, but both felt good. Arguably the Sport was the better car overall, but I preferred the standard one. The old Ford Ka, Sportka and even the little StreetKa felt much better than many modern cars (yes, I've owned all three :oops: )

Anybody got an MG Midget or Frogeye Sprite I can try? Back to basics motoring beckons.

Astraist
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Re: All change

Postby Astraist » Fri May 20, 2016 9:27 pm

Outside of the (obvious) addition to weight and reduction of steering efforts, Manufacturers are just making more fool-proof cars by bolstering up the performance envelope so even too coarse a driver would still be well within the confines of that envelope.

Response to sudden changes of direction ought not to be too sharp if the car is to suit such a driver. It also doesn't necessarily correlate with a greater performance envelope since you tend to get the car more broadside.

TripleS
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Re: All change

Postby TripleS » Sat May 21, 2016 9:54 am

Imsensible wrote:Anybody got an MG Midget or Frogeye Sprite I can try? Back to basics motoring beckons.


My first car was a 'Frogeye' Sprite, which I had from 1960 to 1967, at which time I acquired a Mark 4 sprite (1275 cc). The Mark 4 was no doubt 'better' but I had more enjoyment with the Mark 1 Sprite.

I'd certainly like to have another drive in a Mark 1 Sprite - and a Jaguar 3.8 Mark 2, and a Jaguar Series 3 Sovereign V12. I'm not bothered about much else.

TripleS
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Re: All change

Postby TripleS » Sat May 21, 2016 9:57 am

Astraist wrote:Outside of the (obvious) addition to weight and reduction of steering efforts, Manufacturers are just making more fool-proof cars by bolstering up the performance envelope so even too coarse a driver would still be well within the confines of that envelope.

Response to sudden changes of direction ought not to be too sharp if the car is to suit such a driver. It also doesn't necessarily correlate with a greater performance envelope since you tend to get the car more broadside.


I don't know if the handling experts would agree with this, but considering the size and weight of the car, I found the Jaguar Series 3 XJ6/XJ12 quite nimble and good at quick directional changes.
Last edited by TripleS on Sat May 21, 2016 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Astraist
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Re: All change

Postby Astraist » Sat May 21, 2016 11:12 am

Why disagree?

Handling isn't an entirely objective metric in that it needs to suit a driving style, which can vary between drivers. It's part of the reason why the opinions of automtive journalists to a car can vary.

Personally, I don't care much about a car being "nimble" (in terms of "clocking" it into the corner) because getting the steering right to me means initiating it so early before the corner that the intial response to the helm isn't a limiting factor.

True, I do combine styles and occasionaly "V" a corner, but it is rare enough and done at speed so low that it causes no issue with the response of any vehicle.

TripleS
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Re: All change

Postby TripleS » Sat May 21, 2016 1:18 pm

Astraist wrote:Why disagree?

Handling isn't an entirely objective metric in that it needs to suit a driving style, which can vary between drivers. It's part of the reason why the opinions of automtive journalists to a car can vary.

Personally, I don't care much about a car being "nimble" (in terms of "clocking" it into the corner) because getting the steering right to me means initiating it so early before the corner that the intial response to the helm isn't a limiting factor.

True, I do combine styles and occasionaly "V" a corner, but it is rare enough and done at speed so low that it causes no issue with the response of any vehicle.


Oh, I wasn't inviting disagreement, it was simply a matter of me reporting what I had noticed about the large Jaguars, and wondering what the experts felt about them. It's all a bit academic now, as I'm talking about cars I had 25 years ago. I spend a lot time down memory lane these days: I must be getting old. :lol:

With regard to a car being 'nimble', I agree it's not important in normal circumstances with a sensibly driven car. Having said that, there is always the possibility of a sudden emergency arising, and I do remember one occasion where, with a Series 3 XJ6, I had to make a sudden swerve to avoid a pedestrian who stepped into the road with (honestly) no warning of their action. In that case I think the qualities of the car played an important role in avoiding a collision. Credit where it's due, eh?

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jont-
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Re: All change

Postby jont- » Sat May 21, 2016 1:44 pm

I've failed to find an electronic version of the S1 Elise manual, but the S2 wording probably isn't that different (under "Safety features"):
"- High geared responsive steering requiring only small steering wheel movements to alter course
- Exceptional road holding with optimised handling characteristics"

meanwhile the Caterham has a reasonable section in the manual about competition use :lol:


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