Some news for you!

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:48 am

Good for you. I'm afraid I'm in the "start with a shed" camp, but if you're up for an expenditure of £2000+ per year, obviously you're going to want something shiny and new for your money.

Won't it be sitting idle most of the time while you're at Uni?
Nick

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jont-
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby jont- » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:53 am

angus wrote:Have you looked at Marmalade?

http://www.wearemarmalade.co.uk/cars-for-young-drivers

I really wish people wouldn't buy into these things. From their Ts & Cs
"Your new vehicle will be covered through marmalade with a discreet black box. Unsafe driving may lead to a premium increase."

Of course they don't actually tell you what they mean by "unsafe", or how they arrived at those parameters as being safe/unsafe :evil:

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:58 am

Marmalade were the first black box for young drivers company IIRC. If you want cheap(er) insurance aged below 21, you've pretty much got to accept one these days.
Nick

TripleS
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby TripleS » Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:57 pm

Starting out with a new car as your first car is, IMHO, not the thing to do, although admittedly it is what I did.

Back in 1960, yeah I know, a colleague said the best thing to do is start with an oldish car that takes a bit of care and attention to maintain it. You learn a good deal of useful stuff by going through that phase. Thank you, Ken; I think you were right.

waremark
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby waremark » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:50 pm

He will have had his first year driving a shiny new car.

When I investigated Marmalade for my children, it worked out quite expensive by comparison with buying the new car for the best deal available and insuring with Churchill (then but not now cheapest for young drivers). Interesting to know whether that is still the case.

TheInsanity1234
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:47 pm

Well, how interesting! The responses to my news vary wildly I see...

Apologies for long post, but wanted to compile all my responses into one post!

skodatezzer wrote:Great news! Now we'll want to be hearing how you plan to get some additional driver training on board! Shame you're not within striking distance of East Surrey IAM as we're about to launch a very special offer for young drivers - basically if you train with us and pass your IAM test, we'll refund the cost of the Skill for Life package. See what your local IAM and ROADAR can do. Or, do you know yet where you'll be going to Uni?

Well, I'm planning on finding some IAM or ROADAR group locally and joining up with them for the summer, and probably for life!

Triquet wrote:You should start with a shed. I know it may be more expensive on paper, but it is a Useful Life Experience.

My issue here is, I have the funds to run a new car on a PCP deal, but not the funds to purchase a second hand car outright.

StressedDave wrote:I had a 60bhp version as a courtesy car not long after they came out. Given that it weighs next to nothing, I didn't find it horribly underpowered, although I did discover that you had to have the ICE on all the time as the lack of soundproofing in the engine bay made the three cylinder engine sound like a washing machine filled with M16 nuts.

Is that so? Well, that won't be a problem for me. :wink:

StressedDave wrote:I can't remember if I had 3 or 5 door. If you need to decant normal adults into the back seats then 5 door is the way to go, else go 3-door (and can be used as an excuse for not giving Great Aunt Edna a lift).

I'd probably end up with a 5 door, as I shall be getting a Hearing Dog soon, and they're either required to travel in the boot with the appropriate protection or on the back seat with an appropriate harness, so having the back doors will just make loading a dog into the back easier.

angus wrote:Have you looked at Marmalade?
http://www.wearemarmalade.co.uk/cars-for-young-drivers

I have. If I was interested in paying more money per month, for a car fitted with a black box, than if I just got one myself with a decent deal and paid for the insurance myself. It's about £130 a month for the Citigo, and £600 a year for insurance which can only go down, compared to £155 per month from Marmalade, and another £800 contribution to them insuring me. Also, the £600 a year insurance is without a black box, from Admiral.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Good for you. I'm afraid I'm in the "start with a shed" camp, but if you're up for an expenditure of £2000+ per year, obviously you're going to want something shiny and new for your money.

I'll be paying back about £1500 a year on the PCP deal, and another £600 odd for the insurance. I'd much rather have predictable costs than faff about with a car which is 2 times more to insure, and about 500 times more likely to blow up and demand thousands of pounds to be thrown at it. If I had a lot more disposable income, then I'd love to go shedding, as I think it's cooler to drive an old Volvo barge than it is to drive a new titchy little car. By the way, let me make this clear, I will not be running the car on a shoe-string. I just prefer to have predictable costs than to have unknowns.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Won't it be sitting idle most of the time while you're at Uni?

My mum and dad have said they'd like to have a small little petrol that they could use for tootling about the village because they're not keen on using the Yeti for short distances due to it having a DPF etc. This means they'd probably use it at least once a week.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Marmalade were the first black box for young drivers company IIRC. If you want cheap(er) insurance aged below 21, you've pretty much got to accept one these days.

£600 a year for 8k miles/year, no black box, from Admiral. Much cheaper than the £800 Marmalade were demanding for a black box policy with 8k miles/year.

TripleS wrote:Starting out with a new car as your first car is, IMHO, not the thing to do, although admittedly it is what I did.

Back in 1960, yeah I know, a colleague said the best thing to do is start with an oldish car that takes a bit of care and attention to maintain it. You learn a good deal of useful stuff by going through that phase. Thank you, Ken; I think you were right.

Well, I'll be relying on the car, so I prefer having a new reliable car that should work, and has a replacement at a garage somewhere if it doesn't.

I have got plans on buying a classic mini or something like that, after university as a project car. I've always loved the idea of being able to have a car to fettle and mess about with, but it'd have to be alongside a boring eco-box which will start every time and is as reliable as chips and gravy.

waremark wrote:He will have had his first year driving a shiny new car.

Shiny? Hah, you mean "countryside brown". :mrgreen:

waremark wrote:When I investigated Marmalade for my children, it worked out quite expensive by comparison with buying the new car for the best deal available and insuring with Churchill (then but not now cheapest for young drivers). Interesting to know whether that is still the case.

It does seem to be the case. On a Skoda Citigo SE, Marmalade wanted £155 a month, and a further £800 for the insurance, and another £500 for the deposit. I can get a better spec car (colour edition, basically an SE with more gubbins and metallic paint) direct from Skoda with a better mileage allowance with a £800 deposit, and £130 a month, and £600 insurance.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:03 pm

Out of curiosity, I had a look at small cars in your area on Autotrader the other day, with a maximum price of the deposit you're quoting. There were thousands, with some perfectly good ones for under £500 (that's outright purchase price). I'm not sure why a second hand car should cost more to insure than the equivalent new one, there's no logic in that, but I'll believe you if you say that's the case. While I said "good for you", I do find it slightly difficult to believe how much disposable cash the young have these days. I couldn't afford a car until I left Uni and started a full time job. When I could, it was a 10 year old Ford that cost £375. I learnt a lot running that car - although I already had more than just a clue from home mechanics with my Dad from the age I could hold and pass a spanner when asked. I find it disappointing that car ownership is treated as just an expensive commodity these days, rather than an adventure and an opportunity to learn new skills.

Most of the small cars I found were less than 15 years old, therefore by definition "modern" i.e. with electronic ignition and probably mostly with fuel injection. Apart from rust, those were the two areas requiring most maintenance on cars of the era I grew up in.
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fungus
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby fungus » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Out of curiosity, I had a look at small cars in your area on Autotrader the other day, with a maximum price of the deposit you're quoting. There were thousands, with some perfectly good ones for under £500 (that's outright purchase price). I'm not sure why a second hand car should cost more to insure than the equivalent new one, there's no logic in that, but I'll believe you if you say that's the case. While I said "good for you", I do find it slightly difficult to believe how much disposable cash the young have these days. I couldn't afford a car until I left Uni and started a full time job. When I could, it was a 10 year old Ford that cost £375. I learnt a lot running that car - although I already had more than just a clue from home mechanics with my Dad from the age I could hold and pass a spanner when asked. I find it disappointing that car ownership is treated as just an expensive commodity these days, rather than an adventure and an opportunity to learn new skills.

Most of the small cars I found were less than 15 years old, therefore by definition "modern" i.e. with electronic ignition and probably mostly with fuel injection. Apart from rust, those were the two areas requiring most maintenance on cars of the era I grew up in.


IIAC, the reason older cars cost more to insure is because the risk of personal injury claims is higher due to the lack of pssenger safety equipment compared to modern cars, rather than the cost of repair.

My son has just looked at a two and a half year old Seat Ibiza with 8000 on the clock for just under £8k. Part ex for his thirteen year old Ibiza with 47000 on the clock was only £450. As cars don't interest him he decided that it would be far cheaper to run his car into the ground, scapping it if it needed a large repair.

Nigel.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:04 pm

Well, we could compare the NCAP ratings of a 3 year old Ibiza versus a 13 year old one, but I doubt if they're that different. And Insanity could spend £450 and have a very similar car...
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Pyrolol
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Re: Some news for you!

Postby Pyrolol » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:12 am

My experience buying car insurance (also from Admiral/Elephant group) was that premiums are minimized when the car is worth about £10,000 (there are of course other more significant factors, but it was an appreciable impact). Any more and it'll cost too much to fix, and less and you won't be careful enough; or something like that.

NCAP ratings aren't really comparable between different classes, or over significant amounts of time. What it takes to reach the bar is moving all the time.

Edit: forgot to say: congratulations on the car!


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