Being overtaken while turning.

[TheInsanity1234]

So, I've noticed a weird thing other people do now, which is to overtake me whilst I'm turning left into a junction. Only seems to happen on my way to school though.

Normally, it wouldn't bother me at all, but the junction in question happens to be a single track road coming off the main road, and the mouth of the junction is only wide enough for a car and a half. I often encounter cars appearing in the mouth when I'm approaching it, and usually have to let them out of the junction before I can get in.

I always make sure I indicate in plenty of time on approach when there's a car waiting to go, so they can pull out before I've even reached the junction (I try to avoid flashing them as that could cause issues). However, on occasion, the car appears in the mouth of the junction when I'm very close to it, and this is where problems seem to occur, as I have to slow right down to about 10 mph before I can turn in (it's a very sharp turn, coupled with the risk of meeting an oncoming car), and people always get impatient and overtake.

Doesn't bother me, except when there's a car wanting to turn right out of the junction, and I've got an impatient person behind me. I slow down, willing the waiting turner to hurry up and turn, and then person behind decides to try and go for an overtake, at the same time the turner decides to pull out of the junction. Hasn't resulted in an accident... Yet...

There happens to be another turning just further ahead which will take me to the same place, but it's also very tight and is a single track road, so still requires the slow turning. But on occasion, when I've been followed by a clearly impatient driver, and a car appears in the first turning, I've opted to carry on to the second turning and hope nobody's in the second one, just to avoid an incident between impatient driver and turner.

Is there anything I could do to try and discourage the impatient driver from overtaking so I can let the waiting driver out of the junction, so I can get into it?

[StressedDave]

Move as far as possible to the centreline, slow down using engine braking then main brakes to get the bloke who wants to overtake right up your arse and thus suffering from a lack of options.

[akirk]

think road positioning...

- you will be indicating left to turn left...
- but keep your car further over to the right (still within your lane)

this will do several things:
- it will allow you to see into the junction on your left slightly earlier
- it will block the view of whether the road ahead is clear to overtake for any car behind you
- it creates a big visual message that you are in control of that section of the road - when you hug the left verge before turning left you are sending a subliminal message to the car behind that you are ceeding precedence and they now control the main road as you are moving off - this avoids that message
- it makes your turn easier as you have more of the turn in the major road, meaning that you come into the minor road more clearly over on the left avoiding other vehicles

in addition, perhaps slow down a little earlier - it can help...
remember that if you want to control other drivers you need to avoid making moves which might lead to an inaccurate assumption - sometimes doing things slightly differently makes them pause and think... and while you are on the major road you are the car with priority / dominance...

Alasdair

[Discov8]

Following on from Alasdair, early assertve position on the road, indicate letting the flasher repeat min of 3 times to give the following driver time to wake up before showing your brake lights. Progressive braking to a slow steady approach leaving the turn as late as possible to give max view into the turning, with your approach being more to the right and leaving the turn late informs the following driver that your turn is now tighter and you must go slower to make the turn. Also being positioned to the right as you approach may let the following driver see down your nearside and view any emerging traffic.

[Astraist]

Agree.

Speaking of which, I pondered lately on the role of assertiveness in safe road driving. For the most part, Advanced Driving in Israel is interpreted as being more patient than the lot of local drivers, claiming that you don't really lose a lot from letting another, persistent, driver through, but you do gain in safety margins, and in not "participating", as it were, with the local and somewhat aggressive driving.

On the other hand, I have reasoned lately that some assertiveness in road driving can indeed be helpful. Now, I know StressedDave once justified his view of assertiveness on the fact that the British are a relatively polite people, so that if you "ask" another driver in advance for space using the positioning of your car, you would normally get it.

However, it's surprising to see that the same still applies to countries where the driving culture is somewhat less polite, like Israel. I'd have second thoughts about trying in the PLA or India, though.

[Horse]

Could you work out earlier if the following driver is a likely 'overtaker' (it may even be the same few drivers on their daily commute) and 'encourage' them to pass sooner at a safer location?

[ancient]

What's already been said three or four times, But...
Be Very Aware of two-wheelers, particularly mopeds and untrained cyclists as they now see a gap up the nearside they could use. You are taking responsibility for the whole road, you have an unusual (unexpected) turning position and need to be very sure what is around you.

[Triquet]

Is is the one at Snelsmore Common? Where the major road is the long straight bit up to Chieveley? It's impatient people from Newbury thundering up to the M4 ... Stressed Dave's suggestion is as good as any.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

You are taking responsibility for the whole road ...

This has been the tone of many of the posts so far. While your concern for the actions of others is commendable, remember your primary concern is your own safety. You can't stop idiots being idiotic all the time. So ... take your time, make sure your signals are clear, don't hold anyone up unnecessarily, and if possible, aid others to complete their manoeuvres in safety. Beyond that, there's not too much more you can do. If, by the time you've turned into your junction, an impatient follower and another motorist exiting the junction have a tricky moment, it's not your fault, provided you acted safely and considerately while you had control of that tiny portion of the road approaching the turn. So don't worry too much about what might happen after you've gone on your way.

[TheInsanity1234]

To make the situation clearer, the junction in question is here. I meant to link to it in the OP, but forgot to.

The consensus seems to be take a more dominant position to the right of my lane. I do leave the actual turning very late, as there's a large pothole on the nearside verge on the junction mouth, and turning very late helps me avoid it, whereas hugging the verge before turning results in me hitting it.

and if possible, aid others to complete their manoeuvres in safety. Beyond that, there's not too much more you can do. If, by the time you've turned into your junction, an impatient follower and another motorist exiting the junction have a tricky moment, it's not your fault, provided you acted safely and considerately while you had control of that tiny portion of the road approaching the turn. So don't worry too much about what might happen after you've gone on your way.

Again, the issue with the junction in question is the mouth is very narrow, and requires a waiting car to exit before I can enter, which means if an overtaker and the turning car have a tricky moment, I'll be right in the middle of it, hence wanting to try and avoid people behind overtaking if there's someone waiting.

I've found that leaving braking very late does help, as the person behind ends up far too close to be able to move out to overtake, but the trouble is, if I'm about to turn into the junction, and a car appears coming the other way, the only realistic choice is to stop and let them exit the junction before I can enter, and if the car behind is far too close, there's no room for them to stop.