Tesla X?

[Synchromesh]

it's far more efficient to generate power en masse in a power station than it is to have thousands of ICEs.

Does this take transmission and storage losses into account?

These were figures I read a while but I believe so. Will try to find my source.

P.S I've sent you an email

[StressedDave]

Whilst the actual generation of power at the point of export is more efficient, there are losses up to 12% (depending on whether final transmission is HV, MV or LV), so the efficiency gains aren't there at the point of delivery. I dont know how efficient the Tesla chargers are, but I expect further losses there.

You may or may not be interested in the fact that a certain series of engines are getting thermal efficiency of 50%.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Not to mention charge leakage from the batteries when you're not using the car, which is likely to be rather more than the losses from evaporation of petrol from your tank

[waremark]

Not to mention charge leakage from the batteries when you're not using the car, which is likely to be rather more than the losses from evaporation of petrol from your tank

I don't think there is significant loss with modern battery tech. What makes you think otherwise?

[StressedDave]

Other than the first 5% in 24 hours the self discharge rate of typical lithium chemistry is 2-3% per month. You do of course have to add to that losses through running internal electronics, including the safety electronics that stop thermal runaways and the like. With an IC engine you just turn it off...

[IcedKiwi]

There was a guy who forgot to switch off his Vauxhall Ampera (Chevy volt) when he got home because he didn't realise it was only (being electric and all), and then overnight the engine kept periodically firing up to recharge the battery and by the time he noticed it was a flat battery and empty fuel tank....

[CautiousD]

Porsche are now building an electric car..... and no, the power won't be generated by hamsters on wheels or by burning hippies, as some members of this forum seem to think happens in anything that generates electricity but which isn't a nuclear reactor.

<cue taunts and fetchez la Vache> Imagine owning your very own home wave machine, which uses a 'Salter's Duck' (see Prof Emeritus Stephen Salter) to generate power for your car? Minimal outlay for solar gear to keep the wave machine running and regular top ups of H2O and voila!

<Eject la Vache in their generale direction>

[StressedDave]

Personally, I'd rather burn hippies - there's probably less emissions off one of them and the smell of sandalwood and patchouli oil would make a pleasant experience as you inhale the particulates. I have no issue with electric power, merely the lack of any comprehension on the part of the fanbois who forget that the electrons they throw into it come from somewhere (and you can't paint your own electrons green to show they've come from a renewable power source) and that the range of these things is not compatible with the needs of a large chunk of users.

As for the other, I think someone is somewhat optimistic about efficiencies and the size of the various components. Frankly, you be better off investing in a family pack of baked beans and burning the methane. If you think that'll work I've probably got a Kickstarter fora perpetual motion machine you'd like to invest in.

[martine]

Personally, I'd rather burn hippies - there's probably less emissions off one of them and the smell of sandalwood and patchouli oil would make a pleasant experience as you inhale the particulates. I have no issue with electric power, merely the lack of any comprehension on the part of the fanbois who forget that the electrons they throw into it come from somewhere (and you can't paint your own electrons green to show they've come from a renewable power source) and that the range of these things is not compatible with the needs of a large chunk of users.

As for the other, I think someone is somewhat optimistic about efficiencies and the size of the various components. Frankly, you be better off investing in a family pack of baked beans and burning the methane. If you think that'll work I've probably got a Kickstarter fora perpetual motion machine you'd like to invest in.

But does it not make sense to generate and deal with any nasty emissions in a few dozen places rather than trying to deal with in in 36m places (no. of registered vehicles in the UK). Nuclear is CO2 friendly as are so-called 'renewables'. Gas and coal power stations can be made to be a lot cleaner. Isn't is 'economies of scale' and all that?

Do you have any reliable stats to say electric cars are more polluting than petrol - overall - including the source of electric power, transmission losses, manufacturing, recycling at end of life etc? Or is it an engineer's 'suspicion'? I don't but my 'suspicion' is electric cars make sense' and you'll be aware I'm no sandal wearing, knit-my-own-muesli, greeny

[akirk]

isn't a part of the issue with looking at pollution by various cars, that it is not just about emissions per mile driven - but also needs to include manufacturing through to recycling... which can change the picture considerably...

Alasdair