Old ADUK...oh dear

[IcedKiwi]

A female poster, new to advanced driving, has an opinion which differs to the majority of established advanced drivers -> There's a chance she could be transgender.
I'm sorry but I struggle to see what, other than waremark's unintentional use of the wrong pronoun, is observational about that.

That's how I read it first. If you split the two parts you could see the second sentence as merely an opportunity to make a car based joke on a driving forum but in the context I can imagine it would be easier for one to take offence. I'm not offended and I'm sure none was meant. I'm just, like Insanity, trying to see it from the other side.

[Silk]

A female poster, new to advanced driving, has an opinion which differs to the majority of established advanced drivers -> There's a chance she could be transgender.
I'm sorry but I struggle to see what, other than waremark's unintentional use of the wrong pronoun, is observational about that.

You obviously have limited imagination. Apart from anything else, it's an observation on modern society where we can no longer take established norms for granted. Besides, it's much more likely that a non-transgender female is going to have an opinion that differs from the majority who are largely male.

That's how I read it first. If you split the two parts you could see the second sentence as merely an opportunity to make a car based joke on a driving forum but in the context I can imagine it would be easier for one to take offence. I'm not offended and I'm sure none was meant. I'm just, like Insanity, trying to see it from the other side.

So you're not actually offended yourself, but speaking on behalf of those who you think may be offended - even though you have no evidence to suggest anyone actually is. Are you a Diane Abbott (in or out of drag)? Perhaps anyone who is genuinely offended should say so now. Dave can then have the opportunity to apologise, or otherwise.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

So you're not actually offended yourself, but speaking on behalf of those who you think may be offended - even though you have no evidence to suggest anyone actually is.

Therein lies the essence of today's PC madness. Everyone has become a "correct speech" vigilante.

[IcedKiwi]

It appeared to me Insanity took issue with it (whether he was offended of not I'm not sure), I tried to show support for him.

[TripleS]

Really?

I'm not so sure it should be regarded as merely a joke, though in this case that's all it was, even if some may consider it in poor taste.

We all know that nature 'misfires' sometimes, but is it now happening more often than it did in earlier eras, or it simply that people are now inclined to be more open about their feelings? I suspect it is the former rather than the latter, but I don't really know.

Anyhow, I don't want this to become a basis for conflict here, so I think we should leave it at that; but I do wonder what the future holds for our species.

I'm now going to leave it at that unless anyone wishes to make an issue of it.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I can understand that you'd have a different sense of humour to me, as we are from different generations, and things like that, which your generation would've found amusing, are not very amusing to my generation. Also, being profoundly deaf and gay, I know what it's like to be made a joke of, and it's not particularly nice.

Sure, you may complain about being 'politically correct', and I'd be the first to agree that at times, it goes too far, but I'd rather live in a society where everyone was amused by eggs, rather than jokes that actually took a minor group in society and effectively told them "you're nothing more than a source of amusement."

You say that nature 'misfiring' is more common, I'd argue we have, on average, the same number of 'misfires', but people are feeling more confident about being themselves, and thus, asking for the appropriate treatment to give them the physical body to match the person they feel they should have been born as.

I would hate for this subject to become a basis of conflict, but I feel it would be a very interesting discussion to have.

Apologies for going on a tiny rant, it's just that this is a very important thing in my life.

Thanks all the same, but you have no need to make an apology.

I guess you all know my somewhat odd style by now, but it does a bit of getting used to.

At the moment I do not feel at all guilty about what I said. I would have felt guilty if I had directed my comment at a particular individual in a personal, unkind and hurtful manner, but that wasn't what happened. I didn't actually recall it until afterwards, but what I said was pretty much what Victor Borge was saying in his performances 40 years ago: "In Denmark we have three sexes: male, female and convertible!"

Of course times change, and what was perhaps acceptable, and indeed amusing, a couple of generations ago can cause trouble in these politically correct days. Well that's the way things are now, but if the truth be known I imagine a lot of the older generations still have a degree of discomfort with the LGBT scenario and, concern for the future, as do I, but it's here, and what matters is how we feel and behave towards it, and indeed how members of the LGBT community behave too.

At the end of the day we're all human beings and fully deserving of proper respect and consideration, and freedom from hurtful and unnecessary discrimination, so I would venture to suggest that we might keep that in mind.

Somebody mentioned that this subject might be an interesting basis for discussion, and I'm sure it could, but ADHub is rather too specialised for that to be accommodated: the hotheads of PistonHeads would probably give it an airing though!

Well there are, I've tried to explain my position and I hope it doesn't cause a problem for anybody. That is certainly not my intention.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

hir is feeling disappointed that the guy has walked away - he was enjoying a nice ding-dong.

A reliable source has given me to understand that it might actually be a female rather than a guy. On the other hand there seem to be quite a few 'convertibles' around these days, so it may be a bit difficult to be sure.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Perhaps it would not be wise to make jokes like that in the future.

It wasn't a joke, it was an observation. I happen to find most of what Dave says to be wise and, on occasion, highly amusing - especially when he's ruffling the feathers of the forum "establishment" who, let's be honest, need their feathers ruffling from time-to-time.

Thank you, Steve.

I just knew I deserved to have a supporter somewhere....

[akirk]

...and what matters is how we feel and behave towards it, and indeed how members of the LGBT community behave too.

I think that what matters most is how we behave towards each other - one sign of maturity is the ability to hold different views but still respect each other a) as people and b) to respect their right to hold their own views - sadly we don't always see it in society... but we do seem to on here...

Somebody mentioned that this subject might be an interesting basis for discussion, and I'm sure it could, but ADHub is rather too specialised for that to be accommodated: the hotheads of PistonHeads would probably give it an airing though!

It is not really a subject for ADHub per se - but...
- the sensitivity and maturity and kindness of the discussion is certainliy different to what might be found on pistonheads
- though not about driving, we are a community, so discussions which affect members of our community are generally fine and there has been some good honesty from each side, and the way it has been said seems to be respectful enough I guess we could split the thread out, but then perhaps the original thread as gone as far as it can anyway (not sure ADUK can get any worse!) - so no issues here...

I guess if I had thought about it on setting up this new forum the only rule I would have put in place beyond all others is to respect others - and while we do have some spirited discussions and tease each other, generally there does seem to be a good level of respect on here...

Alasdair

[Silk]

...and what matters is how we feel and behave towards it, and indeed how members of the LGBT community behave too.

I think that what matters most is how we behave towards each other - one sign of maturity is the ability to hold different views but still respect each other a) as people and b) to respect their right to hold their own views - sadly we don't always see it in society... but we do seem to on here...

My problem with all of this is not how tolerant or otherwise we are of others but the engineering of a false tolerance by the "equality and diversity" industry. If things were allowed to follow their course naturally, we could have a bit of a laugh, get it out of our system and move on. Being forced to think a certain way just leads to resentment.

[Silk]

Thank you, Steve.

I just knew I deserved to have a supporter somewhere....

I was just thinking to myself how this thread would have panned out on uk.rec.driving.

Who'd have thought that the Internet would have moved from being the medium of free speech to the very opposite in such a short period of time?

[Silk]

I guess if I had thought about it on setting up this new forum the only rule I would have put in place beyond all others is to respect others.

Respect? We can't be having any of that nonsense on here. No fun at all.