Old ADUK...oh dear

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
TheInsanity1234
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:03 pm

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:20 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Anyway, I just wanted to have the last word, this post is not intended to be opening the matter up for further debate.


FTFY ;)

I think I worded it better :mrgreen:

waremark
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby waremark » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:58 pm

I am carefully keeping off the topic to avoid showing a lack of respect or causing offence!

BTW, was there any indication of this particular poster's gender?

Playtent
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Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby Playtent » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:53 am

TripleS wrote::P Well now, as a change from the difficult subject matter with which we sometimes have to contend here, how about a little diversion?

OK, so I drilled some holes in the wall, then got cracking with the scutch comb chisel (absolutely splendid tool that) and eventually created a recess (without loosening the bricks and having the wall fall down) in which I could fit a 35 mm deep galvanised steel back box for a new 13 amp twin socket.

Now then, this forms part of a ring circuit so we have two cables (both 2.5 mm twin and earth) entering the box, so 6 wires in total. Obviously I bung the two live wires into the L terminal on the front plate, and the two neutral wires go into the N terminal on the front plate. So far so good.

Therefore I'm left with two uninsulated earth wires (one from the cable coming from the left, and one from the cable going off to the right - the next socket in the ring etc. What I've done so far is to connect the LH earth wire to the earth terminal in the back box, and the RH earth wire to the earth terminal on the back of the front plate, both of these wires having received a bit of green and yellow earth sleeving, which is wot they should 'ave.

Now this seems quite safe and decent to me, but something I've read suggests that the earth terminal on the back box should be directly connected to the earth terminal on the back of the front plate, presumably in addition to the connections I've already made, but I can't see that this would add anything useful in terms of safe earthing arrangements.

Sooo, while it might be difficult to get expert advice here on matters appertaining to driving :P it did occur to me that somebody might know a thing or two about domestic wiring systems etc. 'Twas just a thought.... I mean, you wouldn't want poor old Dave to be getting a nasty dose of 240V up his sleeve would you! :shock:


You join both earth wires into the back box and cut a short piece of earth wire and sleeve it, connect it into the back box where the two earth wires are clamped and put the other end onto the earth clamp on the faceplate. Although the screws connect through to the back box and earth across the faceplate it is best to use a link wire in addition.

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akirk
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Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby akirk » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:48 am

WhoseGeneration wrote:Alasdair, you might need to consider adding some conditions to the posting terms.
Forums I'm on where safety critical stuff is discussed, will require that a poster is qualified to post. Electrical installations are one such example.
With regard to TripleS's problem, I could comment but I'm not officially qualified so can't.
Plus, Mr C-W is describing but one, rarely used these days, system of earthing, so, from afar, it's best not to comment and TripleS would be best to consult an electrician.


:D

I think that is reasonable where a forum is focused on such things - but I think it is also reasonable to expect all users of an online forum to realise that they need to decide how to take advice they see online - after all, we spend our time talking about and giving advice on driving, which probably kills more people each year than earthing straps... if old enough to be doing dangerous things - then you are old enough to make a considered judgement on what you read, if not - please check with Mummy or Daddy first :) - besides you should be at school / having your nap / in bed (I do realise that some of those might also apply to regular members!)

more seriously, we have become so fixated on regulation / certification / qualification / etc. in our country that there is now a belief that somehow you are only qualified to have an opinion if you have a bit of paper - one of the great things about this forum is the obvious skills with no paper to back it up - here we discuss matters based on the logic behind them / based as far as possible on first principles - not based on 'I have a qualification therefore this is the only way to do it' - that is the antithesis of what we are about - and so, as far as I am concerned, the same applies to other discussions on here, if what you say is logical & right, it shouldn't matter whether you are 'officially qualified' that is only about liability etc. and there is no liability in a discussion online, the recipient of the advice makes the choice on what advice to follow

Alasdair

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Location: Swindon

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:50 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Anyway, I just wanted to have the last word, this post is not intended to be opening the matter up for further debate.


FTFY ;)

I think I worded it better :mrgreen:

I prefer my version :mrgreen:
Nick

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Horse
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Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby Horse » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:44 am

akirk wrote:Tolerance and or respect doesn't mean agreement - and tolerance and respect is two-way, and there is a difference between respecting a person and their views...


Sounds like when I've been along to talk to Nick's RoSPA group. They've been welcoming and polite, and listen carefully.

But they may not always agree ;)

And that, possibly, might be the point of some of my presentation :lol: :o :twisted: :P :mrgreen:
My own views. For better or worse :)

TripleS
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Location: Briggswath

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby TripleS » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:54 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:You could have done it by now, but if you want to keep looking for reasons to talk yourself out of it, I won't stop you :mrgreen:


Don't worry, I'll make certain about what's needed before we 'go live.'

After our brief exchange on the subject yesterday I looked at some DIY and electrical forums, and it seemed as if the professional electricians were not all of the same mind regarding what is needed.

All that is happening here is that while I have all the floorboards removed for fitting underfloor heating, I'm taking the opportunity to fit some extra power points and lay out the cables.

TripleS
Posts: 227
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Location: Briggswath

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby TripleS » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:17 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:All I wanted was to point out that in the modern day, jokes like that were brushing on the border of offensiveness. The problem really is that everybody would react differently to that kind of joke.

I have a few transgender friends, and a couple would've just found it amusing, but the others would've been a bit offended by it, so all I wanted to do was just make it clear that you now have to be careful.


That sounds a bit like lecturing again, and with all due respect I would prefer you to refrain from doing that.

As I said before, some people could quite rightly be offended if they as individuals were in receipt of unkind or hurtful comments, and I would certainly feel to be in the wrong if I were to poke fun at them in such a direct and personal way, but I did not, and would not, do that.

This is a difficult subject area, and clearly not one that we want to pursue here, so I suggest we leave it now, otherwise things might get said that really would cause an upset.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

TripleS
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Briggswath

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby TripleS » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:26 pm

Playtent wrote:
TripleS wrote::P Well now, as a change from the difficult subject matter with which we sometimes have to contend here, how about a little diversion?

OK, so I drilled some holes in the wall, then got cracking with the scutch comb chisel (absolutely splendid tool that) and eventually created a recess (without loosening the bricks and having the wall fall down) in which I could fit a 35 mm deep galvanised steel back box for a new 13 amp twin socket.

Now then, this forms part of a ring circuit so we have two cables (both 2.5 mm twin and earth) entering the box, so 6 wires in total. Obviously I bung the two live wires into the L terminal on the front plate, and the two neutral wires go into the N terminal on the front plate. So far so good.

Therefore I'm left with two uninsulated earth wires (one from the cable coming from the left, and one from the cable going off to the right - the next socket in the ring etc. What I've done so far is to connect the LH earth wire to the earth terminal in the back box, and the RH earth wire to the earth terminal on the back of the front plate, both of these wires having received a bit of green and yellow earth sleeving, which is wot they should 'ave.

Now this seems quite safe and decent to me, but something I've read suggests that the earth terminal on the back box should be directly connected to the earth terminal on the back of the front plate, presumably in addition to the connections I've already made, but I can't see that this would add anything useful in terms of safe earthing arrangements.

Sooo, while it might be difficult to get expert advice here on matters appertaining to driving :P it did occur to me that somebody might know a thing or two about domestic wiring systems etc. 'Twas just a thought.... I mean, you wouldn't want poor old Dave to be getting a nasty dose of 240V up his sleeve would you! :shock:


You join both earth wires into the back box and cut a short piece of earth wire and sleeve it, connect it into the back box where the two earth wires are clamped and put the other end onto the earth clamp on the faceplate. Although the screws connect through to the back box and earth across the faceplate it is best to use a link wire in addition.


Thank you, Paul. That's a nice clear explanation of a safe and sensible way to proceed.

Thanks to yourself and Nick I think I'm now less likely to expire with a little flash and puff of smoke! (Cue a chorus of groans from the assembled masses.) :lol:

Silk
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: South Glos.

Re: Old ADUK...oh dear

Postby Silk » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:44 pm

TripleS wrote:
Thank you, Paul. That's a nice clear explanation of a safe and sensible way to proceed.

Thanks to yourself and Nick I think I'm now less likely to expire with a little flash and puff of smoke! (Cue a chorus of groans from the assembled masses.) :lol:


While you're there, you may want to lay some conduit with drawstrings under the floor for Audio Cables/Ethernet/Cat5/6 etc. Even if you see no benefit yourself, the next owners will thank you for it. ;-)
Last edited by Silk on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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