Unsigned speed limits

[Another Bill]

Here in Oxfordshire and West Berks, the local authorities seem to have deprioritised maintenance of traffic signs. I’ve submitted quite a few reports myself through fixmystreet about speed limit signs, including repeaters without any terminals and signs obscured by trees, but the reports just get closed and nothing gets done. There’s sometimes painted road markings between the invisible signs where the limit reduces, but they are easy to miss.

Question is… as an advanced driver, if you ‘know’ from local experience or by examining the Traffic Regulation Orders that the limit changes at a certain point, how do you act at the invisible transition?

When limit reduces and you are previously exceeding the new limit, do you slow down before the invisible sign as clearly required by law, or might that confuse or annoy following drivers? They’ll probably figure it out at the first repeater, or in one case I can think of the first Gatso camera, but that may be some distance away,

When limit increases, if safe to do so, accelerate just after the transition? That’s what I’d normally do with visible signs but when being tailgated through a village, the tailgater may think you have accelerated just to annoy them, unaware that the limit has actually changed. An annoyed tailgater can be a rather dangerous creature.

[GTR1400MAN]

Does your council not have a place to report them directly? Many councils don't recognise Fix My Street.

I'd treat them as if they were still there or visible.

[Another Bill]

Fixmystreet is the only contact for Oxfordshire highways.

I even tried phoning them once in order to bypass to fixmystreet, as it was a matter of some urgency. I got to speak to a human being, who took down the details. I thought, briefly, I had beat the system. But a few minutes after the phone call I got an email linking to the fixmystreet issue he’d simply raised on my behalf, based on the phone call.

[martine]

Yes it's a tricky one and of course if you were over the limit and got caught, if the signs were invisible that might be a defence in court...but no one wants to go down that parlarva.

I usually go by what I know - tough on following traffic.

[Horse]

Yes it's a tricky one and of course if you were over the limit and got caught, if the signs were invisible that might be a defence in court...but no one wants to go down that parlarva. traffic.

It's that sort of thing that the 'loophole lawyers' use.

Detailed knowledge of TSRGD along with site investigations, e.g. are signs and markings of correct size*?

* A mate worked for a sign manufacturing company. Someone realised that if they made the speed roundels a fraction smaller, they could get more signs from a sheet.

FWIW, long before the regs on repeater signs were eased, I knew someone who was stopped for speeding. He pointed outed that the required repeaters (no streetlights) were absent. Sent on his way.

[Another Bill]

Detailed knowledge of TSRGD along with site investigations, e.g. are signs and markings of correct size*?

@Horse, I’ve the impression you sometimes reach these parts. If ever in the Wallingford area try driving South around the Wallingford bypass A4130, from junction with the Wantage road (that leads into town) where’s there’s a bit of development going on with new speed limits (not just temporary).

You quickly encounter a pair of 40mph signs on what looks like normal posts, one on each side, and all is well with the world, you allow yourself to go a little faster as the previous limit was 30.

Then you see a 40mph repeater among the grass on the nearside embankment.

The road then becomes streetlit, but iirc the start of streetlighting doesn’t coincide exactly with a 40mph repeater. Does that make it 30?

It also turns into a dual carriageway where, if you’re eagle eyed, you’ll spot another 40;repeater facing you, on the distant verge of the opposite carriageway.

Then the streetlights stop, with another poorly located 40 repeater (I thought it was meant to be on the final lamp post). Then nothing more in way of speed signage for a good half mile until you get to the next rbt, where there’s a rather unexpected NSL repeater. That last stretch, beyond the last repeater, is where most people accelerate to NSL as it has all the appearance of an NSL road. Being proud of my IAM qualification, I often stick to 40 as I know that’s what the TRO intended and anyway, that’s “obeying the last sign” but have on several occasions then been overtaken / cut up rather dangerously, be less conscientious drivers.

I had a lengthy dialogue with roads authority over fixmystreet, but absolutely nothing got done, they eventually closed the report. Haven’t driven it for a week or two so can’t promise nothing’s changed.

[Horse]

Correct, I'm in Newbury.

Funnily enough, pub conversation last night related to this sort of thing. e.g. While walking into town, I'd passed a '40' repeater buried in foliage*, with the red ring faded away to the palest pink**. The chat was about funding for upkeep, how it's now responsive when the level of maintenance reaches 'abysmal', rather than continuous monitoring and fixing at 'slight deterioration'.

* If a sign falls into a forest, but no-one can see it ... etc.

** Not part of the chat, but at what point does the sign alter from legal to being just a suggestion?

AAMOI One of my pet hates is trees growing under streetlights.

[Another Bill]

I’ve noticed on some roads the black markings seems to be fading rather badly on a lot of signs, so a speed limit sign begins to resemble “no vehicles”.

[Ohlins]

if you ‘know’ from local experience or by examining the Traffic Regulation Orders that the limit changes at a certain point, how do you act at the invisible transition?

I can only speak as a motorcyclist, and a wheelie is the correct response

[angus]

There’s sometimes painted road markings between the invisible signs where the limit reduces, but they are easy to miss.

What's the legality/enforcement of these? I thought they were to back up the roundels, but in themselves have no legal meaning? (I've seen instances where they conflict with roundels when the limit has been reduced but the paint hasn't been removed/updated)