A Very Good Read

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
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jont-
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby jont- » Sat May 18, 2019 3:15 pm

DJP31 wrote:
jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:I drive a Tesla and I stopped watching after a couple of minutes. Autopilot is designed for motorways, dual carriageways and A roads with clearly defined lane markings. It is absolutely not designed to be used in the town/city centre environment. This was amply demonstrated by the number of times he had to disengage Autopilot.

So why don't they geofence it then?

/oh wait, that would mean they couldn't do beta testing on the cheap, putting unsuspecting members of the public at risk :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:


I don’t know why it’s not limited only to the roads it’s designed for, but even then you have Darwin Award contenders. If it were up to me when the car uploads the driving data to the Mothership, if it was identified Autopilot had been used in these circumstances I’d disable the feature on that car.

It's obvious why it's not limited - they want the data from situations where it can't cope to be able to improve it. Unfortunately this involves fatal downsides, but their lawyers have so far given them enough get-out-of-jail free cards. If they can't control it, they should be regulated, but we know how slow governments are and how big pockets tech has, particularly in the US.

They also benefit from the soshul meedja attention from the videos like the one you shared because it appeals to many of the people that buy teslas.

DJP31
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby DJP31 » Sat May 18, 2019 3:41 pm

jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:
jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:I drive a Tesla and I stopped watching after a couple of minutes. Autopilot is designed for motorways, dual carriageways and A roads with clearly defined lane markings. It is absolutely not designed to be used in the town/city centre environment. This was amply demonstrated by the number of times he had to disengage Autopilot.

So why don't they geofence it then?

/oh wait, that would mean they couldn't do beta testing on the cheap, putting unsuspecting members of the public at risk :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:


I don’t know why it’s not limited only to the roads it’s designed for, but even then you have Darwin Award contenders. If it were up to me when the car uploads the driving data to the Mothership, if it was identified Autopilot had been used in these circumstances I’d disable the feature on that car.

It's obvious why it's not limited - they want the data from situations where it can't cope to be able to improve it. Unfortunately this involves fatal downsides, but their lawyers have so far given them enough get-out-of-jail free cards. If they can't control it, they should be regulated, but we know how slow governments are and how big pockets tech has, particularly in the US.

They also benefit from the soshul meedja attention from the videos like the one you shared because it appeals to many of the people that buy teslas.


When using Autopilot the driver must remain fully attentive to what is going on around, and very definitely right in front of him. Two fatalities were cars going under HGV’s that turned into the Tesla’s path and a third the auto steering became confused by the poorly painted lane markings - and the car hit a lane divide barrier that hadn’t been repaired from an earlier (non Tesla related) accident. Allegedly in the third incident the driver had previously remarked that Autopilot didn’t cope well with that stretch of highway.

On a point of accuracy, I did not share the video, it had already been posted.

I’m also confident that if I ran a poll on a forum similar to this for Tesla drivers the overwhelming majority would disagree that this in any way ‘appeals to the people that buy teslas.’

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jont-
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby jont- » Sat May 18, 2019 4:38 pm

DJP31 wrote:When using Autopilot the driver must remain fully attentive to what is going on around, and very definitely right in front of him.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Strangely Brown
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby Strangely Brown » Sat May 18, 2019 6:13 pm

jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:When using Autopilot the driver must remain fully attentive to what is going on around, and very definitely right in front of him.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Indeed. If that much attention is required then WTF is the point of it.

DJP31
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby DJP31 » Sat May 18, 2019 6:45 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:When using Autopilot the driver must remain fully attentive to what is going on around, and very definitely right in front of him.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Indeed. If that much attention is required then WTF is the point of it.


If you’ve ever used adaptive cruise control you’ll know just how good that is compared to standard cruise. The auto steer function takes care of the many small steering inputs you routinely make. Neither of these make for autonomous driving but I think you’d be surprised at the difference they make and how less fatigued you are after a long motorway trip.

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jont-
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby jont- » Mon May 20, 2019 7:49 am

DJP31 wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:When using Autopilot the driver must remain fully attentive to what is going on around, and very definitely right in front of him.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Indeed. If that much attention is required then WTF is the point of it.


If you’ve ever used adaptive cruise control you’ll know just how good that is compared to standard cruise. The auto steer function takes care of the many small steering inputs you routinely make. Neither of these make for autonomous driving but I think you’d be surprised at the difference they make and how less fatigued you are after a long motorway trip.

There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here. If you're more relaxed, that's presumably because your work rate is lower, so you /are/ trusting the car to do the right thing. If you weren't, your work rate would be just as high as if you were driving it manually, in which case the technology is pointless - and dangerous for those who /do/ decide to rely on it.

DJP31
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby DJP31 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:29 am

jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
jont- wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Indeed. If that much attention is required then WTF is the point of it.


If you’ve ever used adaptive cruise control you’ll know just how good that is compared to standard cruise. The auto steer function takes care of the many small steering inputs you routinely make. Neither of these make for autonomous driving but I think you’d be surprised at the difference they make and how less fatigued you are after a long motorway trip.

There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here. If you're more relaxed, that's presumably because your work rate is lower, so you /are/ trusting the car to do the right thing. If you weren't, your work rate would be just as high as if you were driving it manually, in which case the technology is pointless - and dangerous for those who /do/ decide to rely on it.


The point of the technology is to make driving safer. How many rear end motorway shunts would be avoided if adaptive cruise control was more widely used?

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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby Gareth » Mon May 20, 2019 8:46 am

DJP31 wrote:The point of the technology is to make driving safer. How many rear end motorway shunts would be avoided if adaptive cruise control was more widely used?

Would you agree that there is a difference between technology that allows the driver to be disengaged from the task and that which doesn't?

At the point where the technology isn't sufficient to entirely replace the driver, do we know what improves overall safety and what doesn't?
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

DJP31
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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby DJP31 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:21 am

Gareth wrote:
DJP31 wrote:The point of the technology is to make driving safer. How many rear end motorway shunts would be avoided if adaptive cruise control was more widely used?

Would you agree that there is a difference between technology that allows the driver to be disengaged from the task and that which doesn't?

At the point where the technology isn't sufficient to entirely replace the driver, do we know what improves overall safety and what doesn't?


I'm sure there have been plenty of studies on the subject, I know Tesla ran one comparing the accident rate on cars using Autopilot v those that weren't - whether it would stand up to scientific scrutiny I don't know. I can only speak from my experience of the Tesla system, and that very definitely in the category of driver assistance, and not autonomy.

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Re: A Very Good Read

Postby Gareth » Mon May 20, 2019 11:59 am

DJP31 wrote:I know Tesla ran one comparing the accident rate on cars using Autopilot v those that weren't - whether it would stand up to scientific scrutiny I don't know. I can only speak from my experience of the Tesla system, and that very definitely in the category of driver assistance, and not autonomy.

As before, would you agree that there is a difference between technology that allows the driver to be disengaged from the task and that which doesn't?

Thing is, names are important, and calling something 'Autopilot' sets an expectation which cannot be justified, given the state of the art.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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