Dead steering: no feedback

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
Astraist
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Astraist » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:19 am

I should think that the wear and tear from dry steering is indeed miniscule. It's not a big tabboo here, and I don't see people replacing parts of their steering mechanism very often.

ChristianAB wrote:Even with 4 fingers, I still couldn't tell anything useful in the vauxhall corsa, on roads where experience with other cars (and my eyes) told me that I should be feeling something...but nothing. That small crevasse over there...nothing. That subtle camber change there...nothing.

So sorry, I just don't buy that 2 fingers thing. It helps a lot, but only up to what is provided in the first place. In fact, I have just driven the corsa with just 1 finger, to no avail.


The idea isn't to actually hold the steering wheel like that as a method. It's just a temporary coaching exercise to try and relieve the death grip that some (99.99%) of the clients have on the steering wheel.

Once that is resolved, it's best to try and create as much contact as possible between the wheel and the whole surface of the palm and fingers. It's also a good idea to use leverage where possible, which is what the thumbs do.

That tends to coincide with positioning the hands acros the diameter of the wheel, rather than across a chord, which also helps.

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EasyShifter
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby EasyShifter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:39 am

You don't need power steering to lose feedback. In (IIRC) 1971 I was driving a little Sunbeam Stiletto and hired a Morris Marina while it was in for service (no courtesy cars in those days). For the first few corners I actually thought I the road must be slippery because I couldn't feel a thing! Except for the fact that it was actually going where I steered, it felt for all the world like a front-wheel skid and was really quite disconcerting at first - particularly in Birmingham rush-hour traffic!
Michael

sussex2
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby sussex2 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:45 am

EasyShifter wrote:You don't need power steering to lose feedback. In (IIRC) 1971 I was driving a little Sunbeam Stiletto and hired a Morris Marina while it was in for service (no courtesy cars in those days). For the first few corners I actually thought I the road must be slippery because I couldn't feel a thing! Except for the fact that it was actually going where I steered, it felt for all the world like a front-wheel skid and was really quite disconcerting at first - particularly in Birmingham rush-hour traffic!


I stand to be corrected but believe the Marina had a good bit of rubber in the joints of the steering column. I believe they were there as some sort of safety mechanism in the case of a collision.

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EasyShifter
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby EasyShifter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:01 am

sussex2 wrote:
EasyShifter wrote:You don't need power steering to lose feedback. In (IIRC) 1971 I was driving a little Sunbeam Stiletto and hired a Morris Marina while it was in for service (no courtesy cars in those days). For the first few corners I actually thought I the road must be slippery because I couldn't feel a thing! Except for the fact that it was actually going where I steered, it felt for all the world like a front-wheel skid and was really quite disconcerting at first - particularly in Birmingham rush-hour traffic!


I stand to be corrected but believe the Marina had a good bit of rubber in the joints of the steering column. I believe they were there as some sort of safety mechanism in the case of a collision.

It probably had a lot of rubber - whether the rubber was 'good', given the general quality standards of the time is seriously open to question! :lol:
Michael

waremark
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby waremark » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:28 am

I contacted a signpost backwards in my Marina in 1974. I blame the handling.

fungus
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby fungus » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:38 pm

waremark wrote:I contacted a signpost backwards in my Marina in 1974. I blame the handling.


Didn't it have the same suspension set up as the Morris Minor?

Nigel.

sussex2
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby sussex2 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:31 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSXyIss8bIQ

Probably the best thing to do with a Marina!

Imsensible
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Imsensible » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:08 pm

Yet again, we have people telling us what is good for us, what we can and cannot feel, what we should have etc. Assumptions that we somehow hold the wheel too tightly, can't feel this or that etc. Power steering reduces the effort a driver needs to turn the wheel at slow speeds. When parking, it helps, although dry steering is a bad thing with or without. At higher speeds, it isn't generally needed, as the amount of wheel turning is reduced. What I do or don't feel through the steering wheel may be different to the experience of others, but I can tell the difference on the cars I have driven. I like to feel these things, and power steering masks much of it. Some mechanisms try to simulate these, basically by adding 'weight' to the steering.

Let's face it, until power steering, nobody could drive a car could they? Oh wait... yes they could.

Imsensible
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Imsensible » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:22 pm

StressedDave wrote:
Imsensible wrote:Unfortunately, I don't live in the Netherlands

There are a few here who no doubt think that unfortunate too... :facepalm:
Imsensible wrote:Not to mention the effects of weight on handling and wear and tear on brakes and tyres etc. And at higher speeds, power steering isn't necessary anyway.

No effect on handling - it's a choice of the manufacturer to set the 'level' of handling you get. Similarly tyres have been increased in size and capacity to deal with the extra weight and brake pad materials have moved on a lot since we had lieghtweight cars.


Of course not Dave, mass has no bearing on anything at all. You did say you were an engineer? Did the laws of physics change recently, or do you operate in some hitherto unknown dimension where the rules are different?

Oh, but wait, we have to have wider tyres and better brakes to cope with those changes that the extra weight doesn't bring to the party? Wow! Next you'll be saying that a fully loaded lorry doesn't use more file than an empty one.

:roll:

Astraist
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Astraist » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:44 pm

I think we need to differentiate between the absolute "performance envelope", to which weight is the enemy, and "handling".

Handling doesn't depend quite as much on weight as does on weight distribution and on the ability of the suspension and tyres at each corner to support that weight.


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