Dead steering: no feedback

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
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akirk
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby akirk » Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:09 pm

ChristianAB wrote:
Astraist wrote:many modern steering system are too far below that point, because they have to accomodate a wide range of drivers, some (most) of which might not be positioned close enough to the wheel to exert enough force on it.


How easy would it be for cars to have steering set-up that can be modulated, at the push of a button, to suit a wider range of preferences? I need to research the topic more, especially on hydraulics vs electric trade-offs, but it strikes me as odd that if a 120Kg rugbyman and his 55Kg sister drive the same car, they should somehow find a way to be happy with the same controls.


that is quite normal - my octavia has several different steering settings...

whether they are the settings we might choose is a different matter...

Alasdair

TheInsanity1234
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:53 pm

I believe a lot of Fiats come with a "city steering" mode which is where the steering assistance is ramped up to make the steering much lighter so parallel parking is made easier, amongst various other scenarios.

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jcochrane
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby jcochrane » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:46 pm

jont- wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:But enough said. I guess I should just sell an organ then buy a lotus, any lotus, and shut up and enjoy this disappearing delicacy that is a truly talkative steering wheel.

:lol: Or a caterham. Although until you fix things, that produces an excess of bump steer that makes the car somewhat unpleasant (especially on Fen roads) :lol: It's not much use if you can't feel the important bits for all the inane chatter going on.

As well as the caterham, I have a Clio which has EPS. Yes, it has light steering. No, it doesn't bump around the way the caterham does. However it's still perfectly possible to feel how much/little grip the car has. But I think you do need to develop a degree of sensitivity to what's going on as Astraist has said. A couple of years ago I would have sided with Christian, but having spent a relatively small amount of time with Don Palmer it has helped me develop my feel a bit more.


I would agree with both jont and Astraist. Of the cars I've driven I've never felt there was no steering feedback. Steering can have different overall feel and response from car to car but it is a matter as jont says of learning to become more aware and sensitive.

Astraist
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Astraist » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:46 am

One trick that helps get an idea as to the ease of touch, is to actually use just a couple of fingers to operate the steering wheel, ideally around a closed piece of tarmac or at least an empty road.

It's not that the grip is more efficient. Clearly it isn't because you have less mechanical grip on the wheel and less leverage, but you also tend not to exert as much force on it so the signal-to-noise ratio improves.

Once the concept of an ease of touch is engrained, one can resort back to a power grip. I also exert leverage on the spokes with the thumbs which usually helps maintain the grip with less grip tension in the forearms.

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ChristianAB
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby ChristianAB » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:47 pm

Astraist wrote:One trick that helps get an idea as to the ease of touch, is to actually use just a couple of fingers to operate the steering wheel, ideally around a closed piece of tarmac or at least an empty road.

It's not that the grip is more efficient. Clearly it isn't because you have less mechanical grip on the wheel and less leverage, but you also tend not to exert as much force on it so the signal-to-noise ratio improves.

Once the concept of an ease of touch is engrained, one can resort back to a power grip. I also exert leverage on the spokes with the thumbs which usually helps maintain the grip with less grip tension in the forearms.


I know people who have more strength with two fingers than most people with their entire arm. Or maybe it is just me. Even with 4 fingers, I still couldn't tell anything useful in the vauxhall corsa, on roads where experience with other cars (and my eyes) told me that I should be feeling something...but nothing. That small crevasse over there...nothing. That subtle camber change there...nothing.

So sorry, I just don't buy that 2 fingers thing. It helps a lot, but only up to what is provided in the first place. In fact, I have just driven the corsa with just 1 finger, to no avail.
Last edited by ChristianAB on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonquirk
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Jonquirk » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:26 pm

Seek medical advice. You may already be dead.

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Horse
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby Horse » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:51 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:I believe a lot of Fiats come with a "city steering" mode which is where the steering assistance is ramped up to make the steering much lighter so parallel parking is made easier, amongst various other scenarios.


Indeed. A friend with a Punto called it her 'Girlie steering' switch :)

Allied with great awareness of the size of her car, she could park in almost inconceivably small spaces. :racing:
My own views. For better or worse :)

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:16 pm

Horse wrote:Indeed. A friend with a Punto called it her 'Girlie steering' switch :)

Allied with great awareness of the size of her car, she could park in almost inconceivably small spaces. :racing:

While killing her tyres and steering components. But then, these small family hatchback/city cars are almost seen as disposable white goods nowadays with the majority bought on purchase plans (effectively long term rental)... also explains all the parking door dings in MY car's doors as people just don't care. :(
Mike Roberts

TheInsanity1234
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:59 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Horse wrote:Indeed. A friend with a Punto called it her 'Girlie steering' switch :)

Allied with great awareness of the size of her car, she could park in almost inconceivably small spaces. :racing:

While killing her tyres and steering components. But then, these small family hatchback/city cars are almost seen as disposable white goods nowadays with the majority bought on purchase plans (effectively long term rental)... also explains all the parking door dings in MY car's doors as people just don't care. :(

I would've thought that as long she's not dry steering, no harm is being done to the steering components and tyres.

If she is dry steering, then I'm afraid you'll probably find that the damage it causes is so minor that it'd take 10 years of constant dry steering before it wears out the power steering systems.

waremark
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Re: Dead steering: no feedback

Postby waremark » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:21 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:I would've thought that as long she's not dry steering, no harm is being done to the steering components and tyres.

If she is dry steering, then I'm afraid you'll probably find that the damage it causes is so minor that it'd take 10 years of constant dry steering before it wears out the power steering systems.

I always wonder whether there is actually any damage done by dry steering. I can see that it must put strain on numerous components, and I train associates not to do it. However, it is such a widespread practice that I suspect modern steering systems are built strongly enough to cope with it.

Who has had experience of worn steering components on older cars?


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