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Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:03 pm
by akirk
jont- wrote:As for buying more tyres - moot point. You're not wearing out the summer tyres when the winters are on. For the clio I bought a s/h set of alloys which I can probably sell on for what I paid when I get rid of the car.


that can vary - with lots of people on leases it is not inconceivable that on a one year / two year lease the tyres will not need replacing - so there is an extra cost... with inclusive leases where tyres are a part of the built in cost, I don't believe that would include winter tyres and switching...

then there is the cost of switching the tyres over - assuming no second set of wheels which would be a big cost - at anything from c. £40 - £80 for four wheels - twice a year - and if you do the spare as well (assuming you have one!) then that adds a little bit more

then the storage costs - some folks won't have space at home - so the garage might store the spare tyres / wheels for them - but are likely to charge...

it can add up - many households might have 2-4 cars if they have young adults at home - that could be £400 / £500 a year extra...

Gareth wrote:One of my friends in a hilly part of the Cotswolds - a long-term advanced driver - used to find that sometimes he couldn't get home so, for him, winter tyres made his life a heck of a lot better.


I never had an issue in my RRs in any conditions / any terrain - I used Pirelli Scorpions which were M&S, but not winter compound... I drove in scottish hills / mountains in conditions which would normally preclude cars... but had no issues... I would be sure that it would have had no issues in the cotswold hills...

the point being is that Winter tyre compounds are but one tool available to the driver - type of car / attitude to driving / driving skills / etc. all play a part in successfully getting from A to B - and while I would support winter tyres as being a great solution (for the 3 days a year you need them!) to see them as a solution without considering the other changes / skills you need is I think fool-hardy - it can give drivers a sense of mis-placed confidence and superiority...

Alasdair

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:19 pm
by jont-
akirk wrote:I never had an issue in my RRs in any conditions / any terrain - I used Pirelli Scorpions which were M&S, but not winter compound...

I thought M+S meant Mud and Snow?

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:47 pm
by Astraist
Yes, but they aren't dedicated snow tyres.

In general, my thinking of the whole subject is that even the best driver needs a compliant car. Why should a given car be made any less compliant than it could be?

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:42 pm
by Gareth
akirk wrote:
Gareth wrote:One of my friends in a hilly part of the Cotswolds - a long-term advanced driver - used to find that sometimes he couldn't get home so, for him, winter tyres made his life a heck of a lot better.

I never had an issue in my RRs in any conditions / any terrain

Good point - he could have saved money by buying a RR instead :P

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:14 pm
by akirk
jont- wrote:
akirk wrote:I never had an issue in my RRs in any conditions / any terrain - I used Pirelli Scorpions which were M&S, but not winter compound...

I thought M+S meant Mud and Snow?


As Astraist comments - that is not a compound designation - it relates to the tread pattern in terms of shifting mud / snow out of the tread...
M&S have I think a mountain graphic on the tyre, winter tyres have a snowflake - some have both!


Gareth wrote:
akirk wrote:
Gareth wrote:One of my friends in a hilly part of the Cotswolds - a long-term advanced driver - used to find that sometimes he couldn't get home so, for him, winter tyres made his life a heck of a lot better.

I never had an issue in my RRs in any conditions / any terrain

Good point - he could have saved money by buying a RR instead :P

I am glad you see my logic :) and the amount I tended to spend on RRs was probably less than winter tyres :D
of course the main point being that winter tyres are one part of an equation, the car / drive technology / driver skills are also parts of that equation - and in some scenarios you can choose which bit needs enhancement to meet your desired outcome - there is a degree of almost hysteria from some quarters about winter tyres - they save the world, you are instantly a driving god once you put them on - and that worries me as the public buy into that - I have seen ridiculous claims for winter tyres (similar to 4x4 drivers who believe that their expensive lump of metal will corner on ice as well as a sports car on tarmac!) - that can mean drivers doing things they shouldn't in the belief that their winter tyres will keep everything under control, as with so many things a more balanced view is needed and while they can be useful they are not necessary for the majority of British drivers, and will help some...

Alasdair

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:27 pm
by Gareth
akirk wrote:I have seen ridiculous claims for winter tyres - that can mean drivers doing things they shouldn't in the belief that their winter tyres will keep everything under control

I agree - when I first had winter tyres fitted my friends and I found they changed 'the conditions' such that drivers have a 20-30 mph advantage on fresh and compacted snow. The winter tyres I was using (and still use, fwiw) generally came out near the top in independent testing but, of course, technology has move on a bit since then. It's not unreasonable to expect people in different circumstances might make a different assessment, for example if they used less good tyres.

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:11 pm
by waremark
A RR on M&S tyres would get me home in snowy conditions. When I was a child my father (a regular on the Monte Carlo and Alpine rallies) generally managed ok with M&S tyres and lead in the boot. Only in extreme conditions did he borrow a Land Rover to take me to school (1963?).

But since I prefer to drive a car which comes on sporty modern tyres, changing them for winters at a cost of £20 twice a year is my solution.

Despite quite a few winter visits to Sweden and other visits to low grip facilities, I don't have the skills to make a car on sports tyres move up a snowy slope. With a 4 wheel drive car on sports tyres I reckoned that the safe speed dictated by long stopping distances was about 20 mph. It would have been 2 or 3 times as high on snow tyres.

I don't put winters on all our cars. When it snows I go out for pleasure in those which are suitably shod.

I don't know why I rise to these comments again and again. Our positions are entrenched and we know where we all stand.

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:53 pm
by Gareth
I reckon it's time to change tyres when there's little chance of cold inclement weather ...

This morning I went out for a little drive. Mid-morning, I was quite surprised when I noticed the car behind had some snow at the bottom of the windscreen. Then I spotted a few more, stopped counting once I saw more than a handful, and one even had snow mostly covering the windscreen - the driver had only cleared a small patch in front of his face.

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Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:15 am
by jont-
I changed the Clio back onto summer tyres just over a week ago. The morning commute is still around 5-6C and in the wet there's noticeably less grip available compared to when I had the winters on (typically manifested as scrabbling when pulling out of junctions, rather than just gripping and going). It's happened a couple of times, so I don't think it's "diesel".

Re: Winter to summer tires

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:43 pm
by Silk
jont- wrote:I changed the Clio back onto summer tyres just over a week ago. The morning commute is still around 5-6C and in the wet there's noticeably less grip available compared to when I had the winters on (typically manifested as scrabbling when pulling out of junctions, rather than just gripping and going). It's happened a couple of times, so I don't think it's "diesel".


A Clio? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: