Winter to summer tires

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
chriskay
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby chriskay » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:44 pm

Silk wrote:
chriskay wrote:
TripleS wrote:As for contributing 'negative or sniping comments', I don't think silk is any more guilty than I am. Maybe I ought to grow up, too: but it's getting a bit late for that. :lol:

There is a difference: your contributions are frequently amusing; those of silk are usually of an unpleasant sniping nature. Since he seldom has anything constructive to say, it would be better if he went away.


Go shove your head in a bucket.

Difficult to decide at this time of year whether to use a winter or a summer bucket.
Carpe diem

Silk
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby Silk » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:15 am

chriskay wrote:
Silk wrote:
chriskay wrote:
TripleS wrote:As for contributing 'negative or sniping comments', I don't think silk is any more guilty than I am. Maybe I ought to grow up, too: but it's getting a bit late for that. :lol:

There is a difference: your contributions are frequently amusing; those of silk are usually of an unpleasant sniping nature. Since he seldom has anything constructive to say, it would be better if he went away.


Go shove your head in a bucket.

Difficult to decide at this time of year whether to use a winter or a summer bucket.


All season. :-)

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StressedDave
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby StressedDave » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:36 am

chriskay wrote:
Silk wrote:
chriskay wrote:
TripleS wrote:As for contributing 'negative or sniping comments', I don't think silk is any more guilty than I am. Maybe I ought to grow up, too: but it's getting a bit late for that. :lol:

There is a difference: your contributions are frequently amusing; those of silk are usually of an unpleasant sniping nature. Since he seldom has anything constructive to say, it would be better if he went away.


Go shove your head in a bucket.

Difficult to decide at this time of year whether to use a winter or a summer bucket.

With a winter bucket, you have to break the ice first...
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waremark
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby waremark » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:24 am

Silk wrote:
waremark wrote:
Silk wrote:My advice is simple - stop driving like a tit and you can use whatever tyres you like. :lol:


Not if you live where I do.

Have not made time to make the change yet.


Have you moved? I was under the impression you lived in one of the more, is not one of the most, benign parts of the country, weather wise.

We rarely get snow. When we do we could not go out if not equipped with winter tyres. Apart from the desire to be able to go out or get home if it snows, strangely I agree with you that the improvement in grip from winter tyres in cold - but not snowy or icy - conditions is not critical. I happily use my performance tyre equipped cars in cold conditions.

waremark
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby waremark » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:33 am

Silk says: I believe that the amount of time and money people devote to all this tyre nonsense is in inverse proportion to the amount of real-world driving they do.

Which rather depends what you call real world driving.

Gareth
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby Gareth » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:38 am

Silk wrote:
hir wrote:2. If you do accept that winter and summer tyres perform differently and more effectively in the conditions for which they are designed, is it your position that here in the UK the extremes of temperature between seasons are not sufficient to warrant the expense of changing to winter tyres during the winter months?

Pretty much, yes. I believe that the amount of time and money people devote to all this tyre nonsense is in inverse proportion to the amount of real-world driving they do.

Clearly you do a lot of mundane driving and, presumably, are employed so that at a personal level probably don't overly care if you aren't able to get somewhere because of adverse conditions.

Some people don't earn if they aren't able to reach their destination so, maybe for them, it's a reasonable choice to make sure they're prepared for the full range of eventualities that can reasonably expected from UK weather.

Some people aren't able to leave or return home if their cars have normal tyres that don't grip well on hill roads in slippery conditions. This can even be the case south of the Watford Gap as waremark has already attested.

Some people live in parts of the UK have have less benign conditions more of the time; perhaps you haven't noticed how many times the BBC weather forecasts have mentioned a risk of snow further north and/or on higher ground this winter. As recent as the 6th March, the Met Office was forecasting snow.

Some people do a shed-load of non-mundane driving; those who do and who write in this forum generally seem to suggest that all-season or winter tyres provide enough of a benefit for them to use them.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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akirk
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby akirk » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:13 am

What did people do before winter tyres were invented?

I don't dispute that the rubber compound in winter tyres performs better at lower temperatures, but that doesn't mean that a car on normal tyres can't be driven - is it perhaps a continuation of the current trend to dumbing down drivers and putting all responsibility onto the car / technology?

If the temperature drops you can change tyres - but the implication and advertising is based around being able to continue driving in the same way - i.e. the winter tyres 'fix' the temperature dropping - no mention of the need to change how you drive... My Z3 has to be driven very differently on wet roads / before the tyres are warmed up / on cold days - but it is still driveable, I just change how I drive it...

I am yet to find weather in the UK which is not driveable on normal rubber compounds - and I have taken a citroen C1 down country roads solid with ice to RRs over grouse moors in 2+ foot of snow on road tyres...

how you drive has as much relevence as the rubber you put on... yes, changing driving and rubber is the ideal combination, but changing rubber and not your driving is not really the answer - despite all the advertising (surprisingly from companies who will profit from your buying more tyres!). The decision has to be around how much extra benefit you would gain from changing rubber compound v. cost to do so... I have friends in Northumberland where it makes sense - for me in the Cotswolds (and not in the hilly part) it makes little sense

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jont-
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby jont- » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:29 am

akirk wrote:What did people do before winter tyres were invented?

I don't dispute that the rubber compound in winter tyres performs better at lower temperatures, but that doesn't mean that a car on normal tyres can't be driven - is it perhaps a continuation of the current trend to dumbing down drivers and putting all responsibility onto the car / technology?

I think it's more of a trend to larger, wider wheels. Go back 15, 20 years and you'd find a sports car/GTI on 15" wheels with 185/195 profile tyres. These days, try finding the equivalent on <18" wheels, and larger are often an option, at 225+ width. It's also possible tread patterns have changed to be less "friendly" to adverse weather.

As for buying more tyres - moot point. You're not wearing out the summer tyres when the winters are on. For the clio I bought a s/h set of alloys which I can probably sell on for what I paid when I get rid of the car.

Gareth
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby Gareth » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:14 am

akirk wrote:What did people do before winter tyres were invented?

Going back 20-30 years, as jont- says, wheels and tyres in the UK were smaller diameter and narrower. For example, my 1986 Alfa GTV6 had 195/60R15 tyres on 6J wheels, considered low profile at that time, whereas these days an entry-level Audi A1 has 205/55R15 tyres while higher trim levels have larger lower profile, up to 225/35R18. This is for, at the top end, similar performance in a slightly lighter car. Utterly ridiculous.

Over the years there has been a lot of development by tyre manufacturers, in response to public demand and pressure from car manufacturers, to produce tyres that are much more economical - the car manufacturers are pulled in two diametrically opposite direction: the fashion for larger, wider wheels with ever lower profile tyres, and the regulations under which they operate in order to sell less and less polluting vehicles. The unintended consequences are 'normal' tyres that work very well in warmer conditions, but which are less effective as temperatures drop below a couple of degrees centigrade, and especially so when the road surfaces are slippery. And you won't find manfacturers fitting tyres that are more suitable for the range of UK weather conditions as standard if they aren't as economical as 'normal' tyres.

akirk wrote:that doesn't mean that a car on normal tyres can't be driven

Depends on the specific car, the conditions, and the specific tyres.

akirk wrote:If the temperature drops you can change tyres - but the implication and advertising is based around being able to continue driving in the same way - i.e. the winter tyres 'fix' the temperature dropping - no mention of the need to change how you drive.

Just as 'normal' tyres have been vastly improved, so have tyres targeted at cold, slippery conditions, as well as those which are designed to work reasonably well over a wider range of conditions. With appropriate tyres, there is much less need to change the way you drive, which isn't to say drivers shouldn't still drive to the conditions. That's actually the point; when people talk about driving to the conditions, they tend to forget how much difference the tyres make to that equation; in wintery weather, good appropriate tyres shift 'the conditions' significantly when compared to less appropriate 'normal' tyres.

akirk wrote:My Z3 has to be driven very differently on wet roads / before the tyres are warmed up / on cold days - but it is still driveable, I just change how I drive it...

Perhaps you could find different tyres that aren't optimised for warm dry weather? They'd almost certainly change your perception of your car.

akirk wrote:The decision has to be around how much extra benefit you would gain from changing rubber compound v. cost to do so... I have friends in Northumberland where it makes sense - for me in the Cotswolds (and not in the hilly part) it makes little sense

One of my friends in a hilly part of the Cotswolds - a long-term advanced driver - used to find that sometimes he couldn't get home so, for him, winter tyres made his life a heck of a lot better.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Gareth
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Re: Winter to summer tires

Postby Gareth » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:18 am

akirk wrote:What did people do before winter tyres were invented?

Forgot to mention - 20-30 years ago tread patterns were much more like some modern all-season tyres, consequently would often provide modest grip on cold slippery roads - at that time modifying the style of driving was absolutely necessary, light throttle, limiting speed, long-range planning, gentle braking, smooth steering, and so on.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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