Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
TripleS
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby TripleS » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:24 pm

fungus wrote:
angus wrote:Dave, the "spirited" drive probably did as much (or more) good than the additive


A few years ago my wife was having a spot of bother with her Peugeot 306 turbo deisel. The local deisel specialist advised her to drive in third gear on one of the local NSL dual carriageways at 70mph, keeping the engine on the rev limitter.

Before an MOT I always give her car ( she prefers deisels) a blow out by driving it on the rev limitter for a couple of minutes.

Nigel.


Oh I appreciate that the 'Italian tune-up' is a much favoured technique for perking an engine up, especially one that spends a lot of time doing short journeys and/or being driven gently. I think it is a good thing to do, and I use it regularly myself, along with an occasional dose of a suitable additive.

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ChristianAB
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby ChristianAB » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:00 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:Could you please explain how a fuel additive makes your manual gear changes "easier and sharper"?


Simple, from cold especially, the engine is very lazy until the engine oil gets up to its 90c normal operating temperature. Not sure if its the ecu slowly things down on purpose or just the lack of effective lubrication. This means that when changing gear, one has to be very patient (for the revs to increase or decrease to an adequate level for the next gear) and/or be super precise when rev matching.

With those fuel additives, the engine revs up and down faster, and thats more noticeable from cold, hence the gear changing, with rev matching and all that, is much easier, faster and generally feels 'better'.

Now, this is my own theory. in truth, I don't know. Just something I have noticed.

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ChristianAB
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby ChristianAB » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:14 pm

Silk wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:I will invite you to drive as a passenger in my car. Then you will stop laughing.


I'm not laughing. I don't sell the stuff. ;)

It seems to me that, no matter what the hobby, there's no shortage of fools out there who will spend vast amounts of money on things that make no provable difference outside of their own imaginations.


Indeed, you ARE serious. You must be very confident to be so definitive on something you have not seen with your own eyes. Worse, you imply that I somehow convinced myself of something that isn't there. Well, maybe so. Either way, I guess a third pair of eyes is needed.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:46 pm

ChristianAB wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:Could you please explain how a fuel additive makes your manual gear changes "easier and sharper"?


Simple, from cold especially, the engine is very lazy until the engine oil gets up to its 90c normal operating temperature. Not sure if its the ecu slowly things down on purpose or just the lack of effective lubrication. This means that when changing gear, one has to be very patient (for the revs to increase or decrease to an adequate level for the next gear) and/or be super precise when rev matching.

With those fuel additives, the engine revs up and down faster, and thats more noticeable from cold, hence the gear changing, with rev matching and all that, is much easier, faster and generally feels 'better'.

Now, this is my own theory. in truth, I don't know. Just something I have noticed.


Wow!

:shock:

trashbat
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby trashbat » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:14 pm

TripleS wrote:
trashbat wrote:
TripleS wrote:By the way, I stopped using supermarket fuel several years ago, and now only use normal grade diesel from BP, Esso or Shell, which appears to give better fuel economy than the supermarket stuff.

I'm fairly sure Esso is exactly the same stuff as supermarket fuel. BP probably the same. Shell is at least different.

Edit: they may add additives at the station, I have my doubts, but additives shouldn't change your fuel economy.


Well thanks all the same, but I find it very hard to believe that supermarket fuel is of equivalent quality to the likes of BP, Esso and Shell. As you will be aware, this is a subject that gets an airing in various driving forums from time to time, though we never seem to get a clear answer on which we can rely.

http://www.greenergy.com/Products_services/retail.html

http://www.greenergy.com/About_greenerg ... tones.html (note that they supply/supplied Sainsburys and Tesco)

Astraist
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby Astraist » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:02 pm

TripleS wrote:Oh I appreciate that the 'Italian tune-up' is a much favoured technique for perking an engine up, especially one that spends a lot of time doing short journeys and/or being driven gently. I think it is a good thing to do, and I use it regularly myself, along with an occasional dose of a suitable additive.


Same here.

Additives in of themselves are much more effective when the motor is all warmed up and operates for a certain period of time in high (and varying) revs with mild to large doses of throttle. A long cruise (in the order of two hours) down the open road also provides a good effect.

Doing both annually yields surprisingly good results.

Silk
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby Silk » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:49 pm

ChristianAB wrote:
Silk wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:I will invite you to drive as a passenger in my car. Then you will stop laughing.


I'm not laughing. I don't sell the stuff. ;)

It seems to me that, no matter what the hobby, there's no shortage of fools out there who will spend vast amounts of money on things that make no provable difference outside of their own imaginations.


Indeed, you ARE serious. You must be very confident to be so definitive on something you have not seen with your own eyes. Worse, you imply that I somehow convinced myself of something that isn't there. Well, maybe so. Either way, I guess a third pair of eyes is needed.


There have been numerous reports in the motoring press over the years warning about fuel additives. In the end, it's (almost) a free country and you can choose to spend your money on whatever you wish within the bounds of legality - bearing in mind, those who exercise these same freedoms in order to sell you the stuff are equally free to have a laugh or two at your expense. In much the same way, some people will buy speaker cable at over £100 a metre, even though the science tells them in isn't worth it.

TripleS
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby TripleS » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:49 am

Jonquirk wrote:All you ever wanted to know about fuel additives used in the supply chain:

https://www.atc-europe.org/public/Doc11 ... -10-01.pdf


Good grief, that'll take some reading. Doesn't life get complicated!

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StressedDave
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby StressedDave » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:26 pm

Silk wrote:In much the same way, some people will buy speaker cable at over £100 a metre, even though the science tells them in isn't worth it.

That's nothing - I know of directional CAT5 cable (It's a bi-directional system and it's digital) between network servers and audio DACs and audiophiles who can tell the difference between different network servers.
All posts are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. Do what you like with it, just don't make money off it.

sussex2
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Re: Fuel Additives - When is it too much?

Postby sussex2 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:39 pm

angus wrote:
trashbat wrote:Edit: they may add additives at the station, I have my doubts, but additives shouldn't change your fuel economy.


Those of us old enough, may remember "Formula Shell" (late 80s) - it did improve my economy by about 10%. Unfortuneately, it also buggered small Vauxhall (amongst others) engines. That was an additive, put in at the filling station by the tanker driver when a load was delivered.


Small Vauxhall engines were generally buggered straight from the factory :D


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