How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri May 27, 2016 7:37 pm

Always wanted a go in an Imp-alike. When I was 18 it was the car I dreamt of buying. Never been in one :(
Nick

fungus
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby fungus » Fri May 27, 2016 8:32 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Always wanted a go in an Imp-alike. When I was 18 it was the car I dreamt of buying. Never been in one :(


Quite nimble, although I think the Mini had the edge on handling. :racing:

Nigel.

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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby Carbon Based » Mon May 30, 2016 6:55 pm

waremark wrote:We also agree that the gear-change indicators are set to maximize economy.


My 3 cylinder petrol engine doesn't just indicate up or down, but specifies which gear it would like you to select. Moderate acceleration will ask for one or even two gears lower so while there is a bias towards economy it isn't totally one sided.

TheInsanity1234
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon May 30, 2016 8:00 pm

As above, my Citigo's gear-change indicator asks you to select the most efficient gear for the job in hand, so if I was in 4th in a 30, and suddenly pushed the accelerator pedal to the floor, it'll tell me to change down to 2nd. Certainly not the most fuel efficient, but it makes sense, as if you get the accelerating job over and done with as fast as possible, you can get back into the most fuel efficient gear, which is better than gradual acceleration in too high a gear!

The same can be said of the Yeti's gear change indicator, it's pretty smart. I just dislike it more than the Citigo's one, as the Yeti has a pretty bold indicator positioned right where you can see it when you check your speed etc, but the Citigo's one is much more discreet and positioned in such a place you have to make an effort to look for it, meaning it's far easier to ignore.

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superplum
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby superplum » Tue May 31, 2016 10:12 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote:Certainly not the most fuel efficient, but it makes sense, as if you get the accelerating job over and done with as fast as possible, you can get back into the most fuel efficient gear, which is better than gradual acceleration in too high a gear!


Exactly - well said Insanity! That is a point I often need to make to my associates - use the engine revs/power for what it's designed to do.

:D

TheInsanity1234
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Tue May 31, 2016 1:53 pm

It was something I worked out myself whilst driving, I found if I accelerated briskly in a lower gear then changed into the highest gear appropriate for the conditions, I usually returned 2 to 3 mpg more per journey than if I just accelerated slowly in a higher gear.

My driving instructor didn't really like me "utilising the power" of his Micra while I was a learner, but the examiner who passed me commented that I accelerated more briskly than most students he examined, but he had no problems with my acceleration.

My 2 minors were for steering (accidentally disturbed the steering while doing a shoulder check joining the A34 on one of its stupidly short slip roads) and approaching a junction too fast (I think he didn't like my braking style)

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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby Jonquirk » Tue May 31, 2016 4:09 pm

If I understand correctly the black boxes offered by insurance companies penalise harsh acceleration regardless of whether or not it is ultimately beneficial to fuel economy, preferring instead to have people chugging along gaining speed slowly.

Years ago Mercedes were offering their services to haulage fleets showing drivers how to get the best out of a 38-tonner with their 16 speed EPS gearbox. An article in Truck magazine shared some of the tricks. No one in their right mind is going to work through 16 gears from a standstill so they showed drivers the most efficient way to skip gears and get to top gear as quickly as possible. Another thing that sticks from the article is he idea that you can't save fuel going uphill so you might as well save time: power up the hill as fast as possible, get the climbing over and settle back to an economic cruising speed.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue May 31, 2016 4:48 pm

We have this debate with m/c associates all the time (despite the perceived stereotypes of rev crazy riders). Riding/driving in a responsive gear and using some revs does not adversely affect the MPG, whereas labouring the engine in too high a gear (in the name of eco driving) does ... and probably pumps out more nasty emissions.
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TheInsanity1234
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Tue May 31, 2016 5:09 pm

Jonquirk wrote:If I understand correctly the black boxes offered by insurance companies penalise harsh acceleration regardless of whether or not it is ultimately beneficial to fuel economy, preferring instead to have people chugging along gaining speed slowly.

And I think that's part of the problem. My friends that drive with black boxes are constantly complaining about how they can never get nowhere near the expected figures (Calculated by taking quoted figures and subtracting about 20%) whereas I can easily hit 55 mpg averages (and over on occasion) in my Citigo (Quoted figures of about 69 mpg, so expected figures of about 55 mpg), and I put it down to the fact they have black boxes, so accelerate and brake very gradually all the time, whereas I tend to accelerate firmly and use engine braking for small speed drops.

Of course, if I genuinely tried and followed the gear change indicator all the time, I might be able to average 65 mpg, but after being used to the Yeti's 43 mpg everywhere, 55 mpg is fantastically economical, and therefore, I'm satisfied with it! :mrgreen:

Jonquirk wrote:Another thing that sticks from the article is he idea that you can't save fuel going uphill so you might as well save time: power up the hill as fast as possible, get the climbing over and settle back to an economic cruising speed.

Another thing I do! I'll often accelerate quickly down a downhill gradient or on the flat (potentially exceeding the speed limit) before an uphill gradient and then gradually lose speed up the hill. One such example is on my commute, where there's a short upwards gradient immediately after 30 signs. Most people I know tend to slow down to 30 to enter the zone then have to use engine power to get up the short gradient, whereas I tend to slow down to pass the signs at around 40, then that allows me to make it up the gradient and I'm usually doing just under 30 at the top of it!

People seem to think eco-driving means driving incredibly slowly everywhere in the highest gear possible, but that's wrong. It's about trying to minimise speed changes and accelerating time.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue May 31, 2016 5:23 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:One such example is on my commute, where there's a short upwards gradient immediately after 30 signs. Most people I know tend to slow down to 30 to enter the zone then have to use engine power to get up the short gradient, whereas I tend to slow down to pass the signs at around 40, then that allows me to make it up the gradient and I'm usually doing just under 30 at the top of it!

Remind me again ... where does the 30 limit start? :twisted:
Mike Roberts


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