How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
gannet
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby gannet » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:04 pm

Well said Christian, where's the like button...

ancient
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby ancient » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:11 pm

As a counterpoint: Perhaps, to develop real skill, we should all still be mixing the air and fuel mixture manually with separate levers? After all, the control of the carburetors with a single pedal was a simplification which resulted in loss of skills.

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Horse
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:30 pm

ancient wrote:As a counterpoint: Perhaps, to develop real skill, we should all still be mixing the air and fuel mixture manually with separate levers? After all, the control of the carburetors with a single pedal was a simplification which resulted in loss of skills.


Pedal? How's that connected to the fuel/air mixing device? Is it a stretchy Bowden cable, or 'fly by wire' via a computer with fuel mapping, etc.? ;)
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:38 pm

... and advancing the spark manually as the engine warms up ...
Nick

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StressedDave
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby StressedDave » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:28 pm

...and standing in front of the damn thing winding it up in the morning (actually that lasted quite a bit longer than you might imagine. IIRC Lada still had that option into the '70s and '80s even)
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fungus
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby fungus » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:54 pm

StressedDave wrote:...and standing in front of the damn thing winding it up in the morning (actually that lasted quite a bit longer than you might imagine. IIRC Lada still had that option into the '70s and '80s even)


It got me out of trouble on more than one occasion, although it didn't halfe hurt when the blighter kicked back due to the timing being too advanced.

Have to say that I totally agree with ChristianAB.

Nigel.

sussex2
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby sussex2 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:08 pm

'The car has enough torque that it does not struggle in the recommended rev regime, and gentle acceleration is possible. However, you probably won't be surprised that I ignored the shift indicators, and often chose a more flexible gear than the system would have recommended. Is that compatible with advanced driving, which at least pays lip service to economical driving?'

Yes it is as simple as that and the key to advanced driving is advanced anticipation and smoothness of style/technique - the two of which alone will produce economy as a result.

The piece of technology mentioned is one of the useless ones that many modern cars have a plenty; as a result of legislation many of them.
A good thing is that they can, by and large, be disabled or switched off and I would recommend everyone to do so.
It is my firm opinion that to obey these gear change indicators on anything even resembling an habitual basis would be potentially dangerous.

fungus
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby fungus » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:59 pm

I agree here. My wifes Skoda Octavia 1.6 tdi has these wretched change up indicators which indicate a change up at about 1200rpm when not using too much throttle. If the driver obeys this useless peice of technology there is no flexibility whatsoever.

waremark
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby waremark » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:04 am

fungus wrote:I agree here. My wifes Skoda Octavia 1.6 tdi has these wretched change up indicators which indicate a change up at about 1200rpm when not using too much throttle. If the driver obeys this useless peice of technology there is no flexibility whatsoever.

But, I think, maximum economy. I sacrifice the maximum economy when I am interested in flexibility. I am currently driving a manual diesel car which is generally very pleasant but which unfortunately has a rather prominent gear-change indicator in bright green (in the Porsche at least it is fairly unobtrusive ).

Actually, I find it interesting to drive this diesel car. It is smooth from 1,000 rpm to 4,000 or maybe 4,500, but does not have much go until 1,800 rpm, so I generally accelerate between 2,000 and 3,500 - a narrower pleasant rev range than I am used to. If slowing for a slow hazard in sixth gear, I find myself declutching at up to 40 mph - but still stick to the 'brakes are to slow, gears are to go' System. I expect most people would find it a nicer car with an automatic gearbox, with which it is also quoted as having quicker acceleration times. (I specifically wanted it manual.)

waremark
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Re: How does advanced driving deal with a modern manual gearbox

Postby waremark » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:29 am

Interested to read this just now on Pistonheads, about the latest (991 gen 2) Porsche 911 in manual guise:

"But does this tech make it the genuine article or a skillfully crafted impression? There are worries, like the fact automatic downshift rev matching is now compulsory in all but the default mode. Want Sport or Sport Plus with sharper throttle and stiffer engine mounts? Forget heel'n'toe downshifts then; the car does it for you. Unless you go the whole hog and turn the PSM off in Sport Plus too. Which is dumb. Because if you're one of the diehard 25 per cent of 911 buyers still wanting to shift yourself the chances are you'll want to do it properly. Dumber still that in this age of configurability and custom driver modes you're not offered the choice of switching it off on your terms."

I agree - dumb and disappointing, I am not about to buy a 911, but if I was thinking about it this would discourage me. I remember long ago asking John Lyon why people liked the first generation of harsh and slow paddle shifts, and he said that you have to remember that most people don't know how to change gear. You would have thought that if any manufacturer was going to make cars for those who do know how to change gear it would be Porsche, but it seems even they limit the option to do it yourself to the few who can get their hands on limited production models like the GT4, and probably the forthcoming 911R.


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