Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Articles of interest to the AD community, currently in the news.
sussex2
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:43 am

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:37 am

I don't agree, not at all, and find our general treatment of the most vulnerable on the roads a national disgrace. In fact so much so that I feel compelled to warn visitors that many UK drivers would 'take the boots off you rather than slow down'.
If the RTA needs changing then so be it as it is long overdue - by several decades.

User avatar
StressedDave
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:27 am

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby StressedDave » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:06 am

Personally, I find the RTA perfectly appropriate. At the end of the day you can change the law all you want but there is a critical mass of road users out there who will not change unless forced to somehow. It took many years of public information films, police campaigns and the like to make drink-driving socially unacceptable; that work is slowly coming undone, particularly with the younger generations, because there is a lack of reinforcement.

However, I do suggest that there needs to be a pact between both cyclists and pedestrians and mechanically propelled vehicle operators. Rather than the free-for-all that there is now, if everyone knew what was to be expected of everyone else, then I suggest that a large proportion of these accidents could be avoided. I'm not suggesting necessarily that we follow the German system where pedestrians get fined for not waiting at crossings or indeed crossing in unapproved places, although that might have some appeal. But if the Tufty Club came back and cyclists were required to follow Cyclecraft (and, more importantly MPV operators informed of what that actually is), with nice fines attached to failure, then we might actually be getting somewhere rather than the lentil eating, yoghurt knitting, hand wringing of do-gooders who want enforcement of a clause with no legal backing rather than education on all sides.
All posts are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. Do what you like with it, just don't make money off it.

sussex2
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:43 am

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:36 am

'However, I do suggest that there needs to be a pact between both cyclists and pedestrians and mechanically propelled vehicle operators. Rather than the free-for-all that there is now, if everyone knew what was to be expected of everyone else, then I suggest that a large proportion of these accidents could be avoided'

That is precisely my point but the only way people can know, be sure as much as anyone can be, what responsibilities are is to make them clear. You are correct that at the moment they are not clear; which I believe makes the most vulnerable even more so.

You mention Germany and the oft quoted fining of people for crossing against lights. The story has another side though as the opportunities to cross safely are more frequent in that country (more frequent in most of our neighbouring countries and others around the world). The motorised vehicle must give way to pedestrians, and cyclists, when turning left or right or approaching a T junction; both the pedestrian and the vehicle user are educated in this and recognise the places.
This giving way at junctions may well be the case even when the vehicle has a green light to turn - so will the pedestrians. There will be plain and simple crossings at frequent intervals (I stand to be corrected but seem to remember the maximum distance apart being 200 metres) on any urban road.

We do not have this system of readily recognised places where all road users can anticipate pedestrians may be crossing and a vehicle may need to give way.

I am including an example (if it works) and if you follow the roads you will notice there are ample but simple opportunities for all to see where people may be crossing - even you will see in the very busy roundabout at the top!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.24367 ... a=!3m1!1e3

User avatar
Strangely Brown
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby Strangely Brown » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:35 pm

StressedDave wrote:However, I do suggest that there needs to be a pact between both cyclists and pedestrians and mechanically propelled vehicle operators. Rather than the free-for-all that there is now, if everyone knew what was to be expected of everyone else, then I suggest that a large proportion of these accidents could be avoided.


We already have a document that details exactly what is expected of each class of road user. It's called The Highway Code. Unfortunately, the only ones that are required to read it and are tested on it at any point are drivers. Cyclists and pedestrians are both covered but, unless they are also drivers, I doubt they have ever picked up a copy, let alone read the parts that apply to them.

You want a pact between all class of road user? Start there. Make it compulsory for cyclists to have read it and understand the rules that apply to them (cough, red lights, cough) and teach the pedestrian part in primary schools.

User avatar
jont-
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Flatlands

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby jont- » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:43 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:You want a pact between all class of road user? Start there. Make it compulsory for cyclists to have read it and understand the rules that apply to them (cough, red lights, cough) and teach the pedestrian part in primary schools.

Don't exempt the drivers. Get them to stay up to date with the HC too :roll:

Isn't a lot of the problem the "us" and "them" attitude and conflict between the types of road user?

User avatar
Strangely Brown
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby Strangely Brown » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:06 pm

Yes, I agree. Drivers should be up to date, but at least they probably know a reasonable amount of it. I also agree that them and us is a problem. I tend to raise the ire of many fellow road users when I slow to the same speed as a cyclist until such times as oncoming traffic allows me to pass it with enough margin. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer as everyone has a part to play but only one group is deemed to have responsibility.

sussex2
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:43 am

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:47 pm

In this day and age there needs to be clear direction.

User avatar
Strangely Brown
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby Strangely Brown » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:19 pm

Yes, right. So let's get some clear legislation that cyclists will be held responsible for accidents that they cause and the same for pedestrians. If everyone has an equal right to use the road then everyone has an equal responsibility to use it safely and not just rely on others to compensate for them.

I was taught how to cross the road properly and to respect the traffic when I was very young. I was taught how to ride a bicycle on the road properly when I was in junior school and I was taught not to open car doors when traffic is coming as soon as I was allowed to open doors myself. These days it seems to be quite normal for people to walk into the road next to their car, look straight at you coming and then open the door anyway. Then there are those silly cows who get the children or baby seat out of the car into the road rather than onto the pavement. It seems like everyone has this massive sense of entitlement to do whatever the hell is most convenient for them and fuck everyone else. Need to stop to let someone out? Hey, just stop wherever you like. Need to park? No spaces? Leave it on the pavement. No, not partly on the pavement, wholly on the pavement. It's your own private parking space, fuck the pedestrians...

... and breathe. Sorry... went off on one a bit there.

In case you haven't noticed, I am a bit sick of the "ME, ME, ME" society that is encouraged by "you can have anything or be anything you want" parents, shyster lawyers and mindless drivel programmes like X-Factor and Britain's got No-Talent. I am sick to the back teeth of dumbing down and lowest common denominator. People should NOT be protected from their own stupidity.

Usual disclaimers apply. Just my £0.02. Other opinions are available. YMMV. etc.

User avatar
ChristianAB
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby ChristianAB » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:28 pm

That came from the heart.

I remember seeing an experiment where all the road signs / road marking where removed, including the separation between pavement and the road itself. With a single white paved surfaced across the entire area.

The result was that immediately everyone paid more attention to everyone else, since there was absolutely no indication of any priority/law/rule to rely on for how to behave. However, this was in a limited area in a city centre, and cannot reasonably be done everywhere (in some places near tube stations in London, the "road" would simply be blocked by crossing pedestrians during rush hour).

For cyclists & red lights, the rule could be that you are free to ignore the red lights, but then if someone hits you, it's your fault.

And yes, there needs to be a modicum of education for cyclists and pedestrians. I once saw a woman cyclist raise her left hand to indicate that she was about to turn right. I nearly collided with her. Then she said "but I indicated!"...Another time, a young girl simply stepped in front of my bicycle at the lights (which were green for me) at the last second. We collided. I still remember the look of stupefaction on her face just before impact. Fortunately for her, I went over, so she only took the deceleration of my 4-6kg bike, albeit with the inertia of the spinning front tire, but it could have been much worse, and she escaped with cut lips.

User avatar
onlinegenie
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:29 pm
Location: Prescot
Contact:

Re: Pedestrians - victim or cause?

Postby onlinegenie » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:53 pm

ChristianAB wrote: I once saw a woman cyclist raise her left hand to indicate that she was about to turn right. I nearly collided with her. Then she said "but I indicated!"


That used to be very common when I was a child over 40 years ago - many of my contemporaries thought you were supposed to hold out your right hand to indicate a left turn and vice versa. I have no idea where this belief came from.
Mark Syder (like the drink only not spelled the same way)


Return to “In The News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests