RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

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Strangely Brown
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:16 pm

It seems to have been missed, so I'll ask again...

TheInsanity1234 wrote:... when approaching a bend, I occasionally leave things like gear changing a bit late and then I brake firmly ...


Strangely Brown wrote:If I read the above correctly: on the approach to a bend, you leave your gear change late and THEN you brake firmly.

What's wrong with this picture?


Now, it may be that our young friend has simply mis-described what he does, but if not, I see a serious underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

fungus
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby fungus » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:58 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:It seems to have been missed, so I'll ask again...

TheInsanity1234 wrote:... when approaching a bend, I occasionally leave things like gear changing a bit late and then I brake firmly ...


Strangely Brown wrote:If I read the above correctly: on the approach to a bend, you leave your gear change late and THEN you brake firmly.

What's wrong with this picture?


Now, it may be that our young friend has simply mis-described what he does, but if not, I see a serious underlying problem that needs to be addressed.


I'm afraid I'm interpreting it in the same manner as you Strangely.

As most on this forum would probably agree, Insanity generaly exhibits a maturity above his years, but the way he worded the sentence "when approaching a bend, I occasionally leave things like gear canging a bit late and then I brake firmly" shows, to me at least, an all too common problem with young inexperienced drivers which I would put down to a combination of misjudgement due to inexperience and some youthfull exhuberance. As he
said, the instances where he activates the ABS are becoming less, which would indicate, hopefully, that he is learning.

IIAC, Insanity is the youngest contributor we have had on this forum and is to be admired for his honesty and keeness to learn, something which I'm sure most young people would not be interested in.

I would suggest that he gets along to a driving day when there is one near where he lives. He would learn a lot from that.

Nigel.

TheInsanity1234
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:26 pm

Well, sorry for taking a while to respond.

Strangely Brown wrote:If I read the above correctly: on the approach to a bend, you leave your gear change late and THEN you brake firmly.

What's wrong with this picture?

May I clarify, I'm not leaving the gear changes late on purpose, it's more a case of I think to myself:
"ooh, best change down, a bend is approaching, gear change done and dusted, wait I'm a bit too close to the bend going a bit too quickly, better brake! Maybe a bit harder, now I'm going at a speed where I can brake within the surprise horizon."
That's the thought process that happens. I try to avoid having my foot on the brake at the same time as having the clutch pushed in, and prefer to only do that when absolutely necessary (i.e, gear I'm in won't let me slow down enough to turn into a side road).
I'm not doing it intentionally, and it's more a case of I've misjudged how much time I've got.

TripleS wrote:As for hard braking being used as a matter of course, well I don't think that's a good style to be adopting, as sooner or later one might find that it isn't going to be enough to avoid a shunt. For most driving I prefer to have a good margin of spare braking or cornering capacity to allow for the sort of misjudgements we can all make at times.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I do try to avoid hard/strong braking. It may be I meant firm braking. I'm not standing the car on its nose every time I get near the pedal.
I'm clearly not doing justice to my driving :mrgreen: It's hard to convey the experience of being a passenger when I'm driving in text.
Just so you're all aware, I'm not driving at the limit. Every time I've cocked up, the car seems to be perfectly within its limits, it's just the ABS that I'm unintentionally activating. As a comparison, I've only activated the traction control on the Yeti once, whilst I was a learner, because I was in a muddy field and accidentally put too much pressure on the accelerator when attempting to pull away.

Gareth wrote:]
  • Are you driving the electronics or are you driving the car?
  • Are you using the ABS to allow you to drive faster into potentially hazardous situations?
  • How much safety margin do you think you should allow, in case of driver error or unforeseen circumstances?

- I'm effectively pushing some electronic buttons which give me the impression of being control of a vehicle when I'm not due to the computer having the power to take over from me at any moment without warning. (Best put my tinfoil hat on).
- I'm not using the ABS as an excuse to allow myself to drive faster into potentially hazardous situations. I just seem to have had more occasions of it activating when I've had to do emergency stops, or brake heavily.
- As much as is necessary in order to make sure that my mistakes remain mistakes, rather than catastrophic multi-vehicle smashes.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Insanity, what tyres has your car got on? How old / worn are they?

The rears are whatever tyres were on the car when we bought it (I think Continentals). They were put on brand new as part of the sale. They're getting pretty close to the limit now, and are approaching two years old. They'll be changed at the next service (in about 2k miles). The front tyres are some little known (most likely Chinese) brand which the garage fitted when we asked them to replace the front tyres due to them getting close to the limit (about 20k miles ago, or a year ago).

I can also tell you guys that maybe 4 or 5 incidents of the dozen or so activations I've had with the ABS were actually due to me having to brake and put 2 wheels on to a muddy verge because of someone coming the other way on a single track road. So in actual fact, even fewer than a dozen of the ABS activations were due to me braking hard enough to warrant its activation in a situation of sort.

Sorry for the long post. Also, I've typed this in one go without planning anything so if anything doesn't make sense, please point it out.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:41 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:Well, sorry for taking a while to respond.

Strangely Brown wrote:If I read the above correctly: on the approach to a bend, you leave your gear change late and THEN you brake firmly.

What's wrong with this picture?

May I clarify, I'm not leaving the gear changes late on purpose, it's more a case of I think to myself:
"ooh, best change down, a bend is approaching, gear change done and dusted, wait I'm a bit too close to the bend going a bit too quickly, better brake! Maybe a bit harder, now I'm going at a speed where I can brake within the surprise horizon."
That's the thought process that happens. I try to avoid having my foot on the brake at the same time as having the clutch pushed in, and prefer to only do that when absolutely necessary (i.e, gear I'm in won't let me slow down enough to turn into a side road).
I'm not doing it intentionally, and it's more a case of I've misjudged how much time I've got.


Thanks for the clarification, and honesty.

If that is an accurate description of how you approach hazards, I suggest, strongly, that you get yourself along to a driving instructor and take a few lessons. Trust me when I say that you need to correct your hazard assessment, approach and execution as a matter of some urgency. As it stands, IMO, you are an accident looking for somewhere to happen.

Clue: Adjust your speed, using the brakes as required, and THEN select a gear appropriate for the speed. NOT the other way round.

The advice is offered with the very best of intentions. It is my sincere hope that you take notice.

TheInsanity1234
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:55 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Well, sorry for taking a while to respond.

Strangely Brown wrote:If I read the above correctly: on the approach to a bend, you leave your gear change late and THEN you brake firmly.

What's wrong with this picture?

May I clarify, I'm not leaving the gear changes late on purpose, it's more a case of I think to myself:
"ooh, best change down, a bend is approaching, gear change done and dusted, wait I'm a bit too close to the bend going a bit too quickly, better brake! Maybe a bit harder, now I'm going at a speed where I can brake within the surprise horizon."
That's the thought process that happens. I try to avoid having my foot on the brake at the same time as having the clutch pushed in, and prefer to only do that when absolutely necessary (i.e, gear I'm in won't let me slow down enough to turn into a side road).
I'm not doing it intentionally, and it's more a case of I've misjudged how much time I've got.


Thanks for the clarification, and honesty.

If that is an accurate description of how you approach hazards, I suggest, strongly, that you get yourself along to a driving instructor and take a few lessons. Trust me when I say that you need to correct your hazard assessment, approach and execution as a matter of some urgency. As it stands, IMO, you are an accident looking for somewhere to happen.

Clue: Adjust your speed, using the brakes as required, and THEN select a gear appropriate for the speed. NOT the other way round.

The advice is offered with the very best of intentions. It is my sincere hope that you take notice.

It isn't my usual plan, let me clarify.

It's what I do on my drive to/from school, as I've done it long enough that I know what gears to be in for certain bends etc so sometimes I try to change gear before braking.

The other 99% of hazards I approach doing my braking first.

But yeah, noted.

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jont-
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby jont- » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:09 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote:It's what I do on my drive to/from school, as I've done it long enough that I know what gears to be in for certain bends etc so sometimes I try to change gear before braking.

I guess you may also have come across the phrase "it's the roads you know that kill you"? It's very easy to "know" what speed you can get round a bend, until you find something unexpected.

I often come home through this set of bends. You arrive at them along a 2+ mile straight, and it feels a bit tighter than that looks, but you've got a good cross view all the way round - even to see a snake on a skateboard. What's harder to see (until you're very close) is whether a farmer has just dragged a load of mud out of the field across the road and what one could have expected to be lovely dry tarmac was anything but.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:13 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote:It isn't my usual plan, let me clarify.

It's what I do on my drive to/from school, as I've done it long enough that I know what gears to be in for certain bends etc so sometimes I try to change gear before braking.

The other 99% of hazards I approach doing my braking first.

But yeah, noted.


Ah well. You know best. At least I tried.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:24 am

Whoa there Brown! I think your comments have been read and accepted. Your advice was freely given, so you said, although you laboured the point a bit. Good advice seldom attracts effusive thanks until the benefit is realised in practice. Give it time ... :mrgreen:
Nick

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StressedDave
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby StressedDave » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:36 am

jont- wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:It's what I do on my drive to/from school, as I've done it long enough that I know what gears to be in for certain bends etc so sometimes I try to change gear before braking.

I guess you may also have come across the phrase "it's the roads you know that kill you"? It's very easy to "know" what speed you can get round a bend, until you find something unexpected.

I often come home through this set of bends. You arrive at them along a 2+ mile straight, and it feels a bit tighter than that looks, but you've got a good cross view all the way round - even to see a snake on a skateboard. What's harder to see (until you're very close) is whether a farmer has just dragged a load of mud out of the field across the road and what one could have expected to be lovely dry tarmac was anything but.

What do you mean, often... daily shurely, even if you have to suffer the Willingham road first.
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Strangely Brown
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:44 am

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Whoa there Brown! I think your comments have been read and accepted. Your advice was freely given, so you said, although you laboured the point a bit. Good advice seldom attracts effusive thanks until the benefit is realised in practice. Give it time ... :mrgreen:


The advice was freely given. You may feel the point was laboured but it was, unless you disagree, accurate. Based on his recent posts, his response was actually no less than I expected and I stand by my earlier statement: he is an accident looking for somewhere to happen.

ETA: I am aware that he is young and will grow out of it as he matures. Give it time?
Last edited by Strangely Brown on Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.


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