RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

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Strangely Brown
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Strangely Brown » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:23 pm

Horse wrote:Re-read the recent posts, he clarifies this. I don't think most people on here are used to receiving this level of self-reflecton and honest reporting.


I have read the recent posts. A few times. He gives the impression that "emergency stops" are not uncommon. As to "how" he brakes being the cause of the ABS activation: unless the Yeti is fitted with "brake assist" then I doubt that is the cause. He also says, " I do brake pretty strongly as part of my normal driving". I have to ask why? Obviously no judgement can be made without sitting in the car but it strikes me that there is an underlying problem that should probably be addressed.

How often do things happen "suddenly" that it requires an emergency stop? ... or even hard braking?

Others may see things differently.

fungus
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby fungus » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:37 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:Re-read the recent posts, he clarifies this. I don't think most people on here are used to receiving this level of self-reflecton and honest reporting.


I have read the recent posts. A few times. He gives the impression that "emergency stops" are not uncommon. As to "how" he brakes being the cause of the ABS activation: unless the Yeti is fitted with "brake assist" then I doubt that is the cause. He also says, " I do brake pretty strongly as part of my normal driving". I have to ask why? Obviously no judgement can be made without sitting in the car but it strikes me that there is an underlying problem that should probably be addressed.

How often do things happen "suddenly" that it requires an emergency stop? ... or even hard braking?

Others may see things differently.


I must admit, that's how I interpreted Insanitys post.

And whilst on the subject of ABS, I can't understand why many instructors say that you shouldn't activate the ABS, :roll: after all, it's there to help in an emergency. I make sure that my pupils do activate the ABS, as if they have no experience of it working, it will probably frighten the hell out of them when it does, which would more than likely result in them releasing the brakes at the very point when they should be firmly on the brakes.

Nigel.

TheInsanity1234
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:52 pm

Gareth wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:What's the bleeding point of fitting a car with a system to help you brake as hard as you can safely, without losing control, if you're then taught not to use it?

Shouldn't be hard to work out the answer to this question - what ideas have you had so far?

The only thing I can think of is during lessons, if you're driving an ABS fitted car, and then you pass your test and purchase a car without ABS, then it won't be fun and games when you slam your foot on the brake and expect the ABS to sort it out for you.

But otherwise, if your vehicle is well maintained, and there are no warning lights to alert you to an ABS malfunction, or any other possible cause of the ABS system not working, why would you not use it? It's like driving around dark country roads with only your dipped beam in the dark because god forbid you rely on the main beam to assist you in seeing through the darkness.

Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:Re-read the recent posts, he clarifies this. I don't think most people on here are used to receiving this level of self-reflecton and honest reporting.


I have read the recent posts. A few times. He gives the impression that "emergency stops" are not uncommon. As to "how" he brakes being the cause of the ABS activation: unless the Yeti is fitted with "brake assist" then I doubt that is the cause. He also says, " I do brake pretty strongly as part of my normal driving". I have to ask why? Obviously no judgement can be made without sitting in the car but it strikes me that there is an underlying problem that should probably be addressed.

How often do things happen "suddenly" that it requires an emergency stop? ... or even hard braking?

Others may see things differently.

There's nothing wrong with you guys nit-picking, after all, how can I improve my driving if I refuse to accept I'm nothing other than perfect. (Although I am, but I'm modest about my skills :wink:)

I can't recall activating the ABS more than a dozen times (trust me, I have a fantastic memory when it comes to things like that) in the last 13 months I've been driving, however, the activations I think were concentrated more into the first 5 or so months, but that was mainly down to me being a tad enthusiastic and not really aware of the likelihood of pheasants suddenly running for their lives out of a bush into the road immediately in front of you.

The last 6 months or so of driving, I don't think I've activated it more than twice, and one of the cases was a scenario I should've been able to predict very easily. The signs were there (driver pulled out in front of me at a T-junction, and they didn't even look at me or show any signs of significant slowing on approach), the second was another rouge pheasant.

But I was saying that in a few scenarios where I've activated the ABS, I've been surprised by its activation, as I wouldn't have expected it to activate, meaning, I didn't think I was pushing on the pedal hard enough that I'd lock the wheels.

Just to clarify, when I say I brake strongly, I don't mean I'm braking like I'm Michael Schumacher in a F1 race, but I brake more firmly (that may be the word I meant to use) than most people would do in daily driving.
The main reason why I brake pretty firmly in my normal driving is because for instance, when approaching a bend, I occasionally leave things like gear changing a bit late and then I brake firmly (although, presumably, fairly smoothly, as I've not had passengers complain about my braking style) to make sure I'm going slow enough to round the bend without need for further braking.

It could merely be youthful over-exuberance or it could be an indication of a underlying, yet consistent, error in my judgement of situations.

As I was saying, I brake firmly, and I think that contributes to my surprise on occasion when the ABS activates, as sometimes I brake and I don't feel like I'm pushing the pedal with enough pressure that the ABS would be troubled. But then it is.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:01 am

If I read the above correctly: on the approach to a bend, you leave your gear change late and THEN you brake firmly.

What's wrong with this picture?

TripleS
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby TripleS » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:17 am

fungus wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:Re-read the recent posts, he clarifies this. I don't think most people on here are used to receiving this level of self-reflecton and honest reporting.


I have read the recent posts. A few times. He gives the impression that "emergency stops" are not uncommon. As to "how" he brakes being the cause of the ABS activation: unless the Yeti is fitted with "brake assist" then I doubt that is the cause. He also says, " I do brake pretty strongly as part of my normal driving". I have to ask why? Obviously no judgement can be made without sitting in the car but it strikes me that there is an underlying problem that should probably be addressed.

How often do things happen "suddenly" that it requires an emergency stop? ... or even hard braking?

Others may see things differently.


I must admit, that's how I interpreted Insanitys post.

And whilst on the subject of ABS, I can't understand why many instructors say that you shouldn't activate the ABS, :roll: after all, it's there to help in an emergency. I make sure that my pupils do activate the ABS, as if they have no experience of it working, it will probably frighten the hell out of them when it does, which would more than likely result in them releasing the brakes at the very point when they should be firmly on the brakes.

Nigel.


I think it is right that drivers should be encouraged to at least know what it feels like when the ABS is activated. Certainly I was a bit startled to experience it for the first time: the pulsing at the brake pedal was quite off-putting to me. Having said that, my ABS hardly ever activates. The only times it does intervene tend to be in winter conditions, or if putting wheels onto a muddy grass verge when meeting another vehicle on a single track road. Apart from that sort of occasion, I wouldn't know the system is fitted.

As for hard braking being used as a matter of course, well I don't think that's a good style to be adopting, as sooner or later one might find that it isn't going to be enough to avoid a shunt. For most driving I prefer to have a good margin of spare braking or cornering capacity to allow for the sort of misjudgements we can all make at times.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

dave51
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Location: South Worcestershire

Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby dave51 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:23 am

TripleS wrote: For most driving I prefer to have a good margin of spare braking or cornering capacity to allow for the sort of misjudgements we can all make at times.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


Hear, Hear.
If you activate ABS or any of the safety systems we have now you have failed to correctly assess the conditions. Occasionally we all make a mistake and it's nice to know you have a guardian angel, but it's not good to place too much reliance on it.

"Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly"

dave51
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby dave51 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:31 pm

dave51 wrote:
TripleS wrote: For most driving I prefer to have a good margin of spare braking or cornering capacity to allow for the sort of misjudgements we can all make at times.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


Hear, Hear.
If you activate ABS or any of the safety systems we have now you have failed to correctly assess the conditions. Occasionally we all make a mistake and it's nice to know you have a guardian angel, but it's not good to place too much reliance on it.

"Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly"


And also, the driver behind you may not be equipped with the same technology and may not have left a sufficient gap. Their problem, but it may become yours in short order.
I may be guilty of not "making progress" to the degree that some would think appropriate but I hope I leave those behind time to react. If they don't then at least I have done my best. If someone behind seems to be getting agitated then I will pull over at a safe place and let them past.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:08 pm

I wrote about my last activation of ABS on AD-UK when it happened, at least 3 years ago. I do occasionally provoke it on purpose to ensure that it's still working, but this was the last time I actually needed it. I am very seldom accused of making insufficient progress, but I don't seem to need ABS. I think it's justifiable therefore, to question Insanity's frequent experience of it, and to suggest that some further training may help to eradicate it, and make the drive safer, and smoother.

Insanity, what tyres has your car got on? How old / worn are they?
Nick

chriskay
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby chriskay » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:19 pm

Good question about the tyres, Nick. Personally, for at least the last fifteen years, my cars have been equipped with ABS and, apart from testing, I've never actuated it for real even though, as some members here would be able to attest, my driving style is fairly progressive. I'm inclined to think that, as Mr. Insanity's experience increases, he'll find less intervention from the ABS.
Carpe diem

Gareth
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Re: RoSPA launches website to keep older drivers safe on the roads

Postby Gareth » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:32 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:
Gareth wrote:what ideas have you had so far?
The only thing I can think of is during lessons, if you're driving an ABS fitted car, and then you pass your test and purchase a car without ABS, then it won't be fun and games when you slam your foot on the brake and expect the ABS to sort it out for you.
  • Are you driving the electronics or are you driving the car?
  • Are you using the ABS to allow you to drive faster into potentially hazardous situations?
  • How much safety margin do you think you should allow, in case of driver error or unforeseen circumstances?
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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