Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

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akirk
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Location: Cotswolds

Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby akirk » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:30 am

Learners could be given lessons on motorways / in bad weather / at night:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... night.html

various constraints such as motorway lessons to have to be with an instructor in a dual-control car...

as well as the impact in terms of skills learned, this has an impact in changing the way in which we deliver / allow people to take their test...
currently you can rock up and take your test and potentially pass it... without having had to employ an ADI etc.
now you will have little choice...

is this a shift away from outcome testing to process control - i.e. control the way in which people learn, rather than just testing their capability?
if every driver were the same and needed the same in terms of lessons it would make sense, but presumably they aren't and don't?!

Alasdair

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Horse
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby Horse » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:07 am

I am reminded of some project planning (for which I was in charge of delivery) for a government agency, which were proposed to have the 'daytime' element in October/November and the 'night time' version in July . . . We managed to get them to alter their thoughts without resorting to the explaining stick :)

Although, on another occasion we had to deliver some demo sessions involving, at the same event, daylight/dusk/night. These events had to be done at a certain timescale, one in June the other on July! They were late nights :)
My own views. For better or worse :)

martine
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby martine » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:46 am

akirk wrote:Learners could be given lessons on motorways / in bad weather / at night:

...is this a shift away from outcome testing to process control - i.e. control the way in which people learn, rather than just testing their capability?
if every driver were the same and needed the same in terms of lessons it would make sense, but presumably they aren't and don't?!

I'm in favour of ADI's being allowed to take learners on motorways. I also think there should be some sort of compulsory log-book for learners (like there is in France) with certain topics being signed off by an ADI. With the learner pass rate of around 45% and only 1:4 passing first time, I think a slightly more formal method of teaching would be good.

In response your statement above, I think it's difficult to adequately assess someone's driving in 35 mins, often never straying onto higher speed limit roads and never at night - so yes 'process control' might help.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

Carbon Based
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby Carbon Based » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:14 pm

martine wrote:I also think there should be some sort of compulsory log-book for learners (like there is in France) with certain topics being signed off by an ADI. With the learner pass rate of around 45% and only 1:4 passing first time, I think a slightly more formal method of teaching would be good.


Perhaps it would also help to alleviate the concerns that may exist around candidate identity fraud like this:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/a ... 334601.ece

Astraist
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby Astraist » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:56 pm

martine wrote:I'm in favour of ADI's being allowed to take learners on motorways. I also think there should be some sort of compulsory log-book for learners (like there is in France) with certain topics being signed off by an ADI.


Us too. Not that the Israeli driver education standards are something to aspire to (though they are not too bad overall), but learners are supposed to follow a check-list which does include Motorways and driving in night, which I think is a good idea.

I know a few advanced driving coaches who also work with learners and they are particularly adamant on their clients being exposed to the widest possible variety of roads and road conditions.

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angus
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Location: Colchester - Oldest Town, oldest roads

Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby angus » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:42 pm

I'd like to know how they propose to deliver the motorway side - here in Colchester, the nearest motorway (M25 or M11) is 40 miles away, and in areas of Suffolk and Norfolk even dual carriageway is a good distance.

There was a comment on the radio today, that this should only be delivered by an instructor - mum or dad will not be good enough.

Interestingly, some years ago I was chatting to an ADI based in Brentwood (close to the M25). He told me that he offered ALL his students a free motorway lesson when they passed their test but that no-one had accepted

true blue
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby true blue » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:00 am

Having seen the quality of ADI tuition a few years ago when my other half was learning to drive, I think limiting motorway access for learners to ADIs only is a poor idea.

Also, what use will dual controls be? There's no second steering wheel, so lane control won't be assisted. I should think that unexpected and probably heavy braking from the ADI will (almost) never be a good thing on a motorway! And, so far as I'm aware, the dual controls can't be used to stop the learner from braking?

At the moment I'm permitted to take a learner driver on the A14, which is more challenging than many motorways, without dual controls and without being an ADI. Presumably I'd retain this right?

The whole thing smacks of a half-baked idea, with the panacea of dual controls and ADIs used to cover up the fact that whoever came up with it hasn't got a basic understanding of how the system works now.

waremark
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby waremark » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:55 am

How good is the average ADI at motorway driving?

And why don't learner cars have proper dual controls?

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akirk
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby akirk » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:51 am

Motorways are by far safer than some A roads...
the A417 / A419 near us (M4 to M5) has places which are very dangerous - the turning I would take off the dual carriageway has a badly sighted turning across all 4 lanes, a notorious place for crashes, so like a motorway you have multiple lanes and traffic doing 80-90mph, but in addition you might have a gravel lorry pulling out slowly into the 'fast lane' :) so if a learner is currently allowed down there on their first day of driving - why do we worry about the motorway? The only issue is that currently we wouldn't expect to find a learner on a motorway, however there are plenty of bad drivers on the motorway!

Alasdair

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Horse
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Re: Learners - motorways, night, bad weather

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:05 am

akirk wrote: The only issue is that currently we wouldn't expect to find a learner on a motorway, however there are plenty of bad drivers on the motorway!


If the learner is at test-ready standard, they may well be better - at have more up-to-date knowledge - than many other drivers . . .
My own views. For better or worse :)


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