Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

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CautiousD
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby CautiousD » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:52 am

What a defeatist and cynical attitude to take.

So the question is 'why would you want to invest in cleaner and safer technologies?'. Of course, you don't have to but then you're justifiably criticising VAG for deliberately cheating us all because we all accept that our cars aren't really that great, so they felt the need to cheat in order to satiate that desire for cleaner and more efficient cars........while also criticising Tesla (and bizarrely me too) for taking an interest in something a bit different ie cleaner and more economical cars?! The option to charge a car from solar power and a battery in your house exists. If that goes against your moral compass, fine, all I'm saying is that I find it very interesting.

As for why I find it very interesting, AFAIK the invasion of Iraq and all the atrocities that we are still defending ourselves from as a result of it, didnt happen because the US and it's waggie- tailed allies felt the need to invade, protect and extract...... their solar panels. But why let that stop your ox carts of logic from ploughing ever onwards into yet more of the same BS, when you can buy cars from companies who go out of their way to change the status quo? Bit of a moral cul-de-sac you made for yourself.

"Reduce Your Electricity Bill
In the United Kingdom, the price you are paid for the excess solar power your home generates is lower than the price you pay for electricity from the utility grid. Given this rate structure, it is more cost effective to consume your solar power than to sell it back to the utility. By storing your home's surplus power and using it when you would otherwise need to pull from the grid, Powerwall minimises your net spending." Teslamotors.com

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:05 pm

CautiousD wrote:What a defeatist and cynical attitude to take.

Who?
CautiousD wrote:So the question is 'why would you want to invest in cleaner and safer technologies?'. Of course, you don't have to but then you're justifiably criticising VAG for deliberately cheating us all because we all accept that our cars aren't really that great, so they felt the need to cheat in order to satiate that desire for cleaner and more efficient cars........

VW cheated in order to satiate the desire for performant cars, while appearing to conform to government requirements. So the people who buy VWs (who, let's face it, are not, in the main, eco campaigners, but status-conscious yuppies) get the sportiness they desire, while still getting good fuel economy.
CautiousD wrote:while also criticising Tesla (and bizarrely me too) for taking an interest in something a bit different ie cleaner and more economical cars?! The option to charge a car from solar power and a battery in your house exists. If that goes against your moral compass, fine, all I'm saying is that I find it very interesting.

Have you looked into the carbon footprint of the process involved in producing, and then disposing of, large Li-Ion batteries? There's quite a debate, but it's not as clear cut as claiming all the Tesla does is use nice clean solar energy. At best, they have the equivalent carbon footprint of a mid-sized family car, while costing about 3 times as much.
CautiousD wrote:Political stuff about oil and war.

See point above about the actual "green-ness" of EVs.
CautiousD wrote:"Reduce Your Electricity Bill
In the United Kingdom, the price you are paid for the excess solar power your home generates is lower than the price you pay for electricity from the utility grid. Given this rate structure, it is more cost effective to consume your solar power than to sell it back to the utility. By storing your home's surplus power and using it when you would otherwise need to pull from the grid, Powerwall minimises your net spending." Teslamotors.com

True after January 1st. Very much not true at the present moment. Currently the FIT rate for domestic installations is about 12.6p, and good electricity tariffs are around 10.1p. Also the government pay you for 50% of the electricity you generate whether you use it or not. If you use more than 50% of it you get that portion for free, as well as reducing your electricity bill from the grid supplier accordingly. Of course, you still have the capital cost of the panels, unless you go for one of the leasing options.
Nick

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jont-
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Location: Flatlands

Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby jont- » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:26 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
CautiousD wrote:"Reduce Your Electricity Bill
In the United Kingdom, the price you are paid for the excess solar power your home generates is lower than the price you pay for electricity from the utility grid. Given this rate structure, it is more cost effective to consume your solar power than to sell it back to the utility. By storing your home's surplus power and using it when you would otherwise need to pull from the grid, Powerwall minimises your net spending." Teslamotors.com

True after January 1st. Very much not true at the present moment. Currently the FIT rate for domestic installations is about 12.6p, and good electricity tariffs are around 10.1p. Also the government pay you for 50% of the electricity you generate whether you use it or not. If you use more than 50% of it you get that portion for free, as well as reducing your electricity bill from the grid supplier accordingly. Of course, you still have the capital cost of the panels, unless you go for one of the leasing options.

Not to mention it's a massive sop to the middle/upper classes at the cost of those in fuel poverty. As for those solar companies providing "free" panels and taking the FIT tariff themselves, they should be locked up with the bankers :twisted:

Solar/wind are never going to be capable of supplying base load. If you're worried about Co2 emissions, you should be pushing the government to build massive nuclear facilities (and preferably ourselves, not with foreign investment).

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:27 pm

I confess, I'm a middle class home owner with solar panels on my roof :) (but I only installed them to please CautiousD)
Nick

TripleS
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby TripleS » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:32 pm

jont- wrote:Solar/wind are never going to be capable of supplying base load. If you're worried about Co2 emissions, you should be pushing the government to build massive nuclear facilities (and preferably ourselves, not with foreign investment).


That gets my vote, Jon.

Revian
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Location: Wirral

Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby Revian » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:07 pm

TripleS wrote:
jont- wrote:Solar/wind are never going to be capable of supplying base load. If you're worried about Co2 emissions, you should be pushing the government to build massive nuclear facilities (and preferably ourselves, not with foreign investment).


That gets my vote, Jon.

It gets one of my two votes... ;) I think the other half of the coin is about reducing energy demand. This isn't simply about reducing (eg) car use but about the energy efficiency of the 'stuff' we have. In my small middle class ;) 1960s semi Its about low as I can get I think. LED bulbs throughout and reasonably insulated. Of course it's still a 1960s house with the limitations of such. I'm in danger of being obsessive about turning the central heating down as my wife might confirm....

Less demand= less power stations= lower environmental impact

Current policies about subsidising solar panels and (especially) electric cars are aimed at those with the money already.... We need mass consumer impact.
Ian

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jont-
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby jont- » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:12 pm

Revian wrote:It gets one of my two votes... ;) I think the other half of the coin is about reducing energy demand. This isn't simply about reducing (eg) car use but about the energy efficiency of the 'stuff' we have. In my small middle class ;) 1960s semi Its about low as I can get I think. LED bulbs throughout and reasonably insulated. Of course it's still a 1960s house with the limitations of such. I'm in danger of being obsessive about turning the central heating down as my wife might confirm....

Less demand= less power stations= lower environmental impact

Maybe here, but you're just offshoring the demand - instead of a cheap glass + filament bulb you've got all sorts of nasty manufacturing in producing LEDs (or worse still, CFL) bulbs, which often don't deliver on their claimed lifespan. But of course all the emissions for manufacture are in China, from cheap and dirty coal power, so that's ok :roll:

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M1ke H
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby M1ke H » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:19 pm

jont- wrote:Solar/wind are never going to be capable of supplying base load. If you're worried about Co2 emissions, you should be pushing the government to build massive nuclear facilities (and preferably ourselves, not with foreign investment).

Perfectly timed comment jont-.....

National Grid had to impose 'last resort' measures yesterday because a combination of lack of wind (power) and plant outages meant capacity margins were not in place and some industrial customers were paid to switch off. Apparently low wind speeds meant most of our 6,500 onshore and offshore wind turbines were barely generating any power just as demand hit its highest, and rather than a theoretical maximum capacity of more than 13,000 megawatts, produced less than 400 megawatts of power for much of the peak demand period yesterday, meeting less than one per cent of the UK’s electricity needs, published data suggests.

And to the OP's question - We have two Audi's in our garage, one petrol, one derv, and the answer is still 'No' :)

Revian
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Location: Wirral

Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby Revian » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:48 pm

jont- wrote:
Revian wrote:It gets one of my two votes... ;) I think the other half of the coin is about reducing energy demand. This isn't simply about reducing (eg) car use but about the energy efficiency of the 'stuff' we have. In my small middle class ;) 1960s semi Its about low as I can get I think. LED bulbs throughout and reasonably insulated. Of course it's still a 1960s house with the limitations of such. I'm in danger of being obsessive about turning the central heating down as my wife might confirm....

Less demand= less power stations= lower environmental impact

Maybe here, but you're just offshoring the demand - instead of a cheap glass + filament bulb you've got all sorts of nasty manufacturing in producing LEDs (or worse still, CFL) bulbs, which often don't deliver on their claimed lifespan. But of course all the emissions for manufacture are in China, from cheap and dirty coal power, so that's ok :roll:

Good point. My aim (if missing) is still right I think. We need to consume less power... Maybe roll back so-called advances which consume power for little, if any, sensible purpose. I've a feeling the myriad of small devices adds up to a biggish load. I suppose this seals the fate of Internet forums! :roll:
Ian

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M1ke H
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Re: Audi, Porsche join VW scandal.

Postby M1ke H » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:20 pm

Revian wrote:I suppose this seals the fate of Internet forums! :roll:

I can think of several that I'm convinced are steam driven - so no issue there then ;)


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