Advanced Driving Hub

sussex2 wrote:The situation may be helped by the excellent, and constantly evolving, road network.

Probably also helped by the much lower population density, possibly a close enough indicator of relative traffic density. The UK has almost three times as many people per unit of area.

Maybe it's better to compare the ratio of length of roads to inhabitants. How thoroughly shared resources are used plays into a lot of things.

sussex2 wrote:Outside of a city it is rare to be held up at all and even if there is a collision then things get cleared up, quickly.

Surely it's a trade-off between how thoroughly (serious) accidents are investigated, but see above - if the chances of an accident are lower then road users are much less likely to get held up.

Ashley Neal banging the "you must stop for peds at RABs" drum again on YouTube. https://youtu.be/vXusi54W9W4?t=260

My comment on there "The motorcyclists stopping on the exit to RAB shows exactly why this is not a good idea. Every situation needs to be judged on its own merits and that includes the speed of the road and the proximity of following traffic. There's been a lot written online about the rule changes but the actual rule (which is a Should not, a Must!) is only in the section on junctions. It is not mentioned in the section dedicated to RABs. To be clear I always let pedestrians cross WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, including the ENTRY to RABs, but I'm not going to stop and put myself in danger. Even the advise from the DVSA on tests acknowledges the extra level of risk to motorcyclists and the fact the examiner will take all the information into account regarding a decision to stop or not stop. See here despatch.blog.gov.uk/2022/01/26/changes-to-the-highway-code/ (copy n paste to a browser) I don't think your videos/commentary put enough emphasis on getting the balance right and are a bit too black/white about stopping."

Edit : just seen crr003 had spotted Mr Neal's video a bit quicker than me

GTR1400MAN wrote:Ashley Neal banging the "you must stop for peds at RABs" drum again on YouTube. https://youtu.be/vXusi54W9W4?t=260

My comment on there "The motorcyclists stopping on the exit to RAB shows exactly why this is not a good idea. Every situation needs to be judged on its own merits and that includes the speed of the road and the proximity of following traffic. There's been a lot written online about the rule changes but the actual rule (which is a Should not, a Must!) is only in the section on junctions. It is not mentioned in the section dedicated to RABs. To be clear I always let pedestrians cross WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, including the ENTRY to RABs, but I'm not going to stop and put myself in danger. Even the advise from the DVSA on tests acknowledges the extra level of risk to motorcyclists and the fact the examiner will take all the information into account regarding a decision to stop or not stop. See here despatch.blog.gov.uk/2022/01/26/changes-to-the-highway-code/ (copy n paste to a browser) I don't think your videos/commentary put enough emphasis on getting the balance right and are a bit too black/white about stopping."

Edit : just seen crr003 had spotted Mr Neal's video a bit quicker than me

Would not simple white lines across the junction let everybody know that there is the likelyhood of pedestrians crossing.
No fancy lights, just simple white crossing lines.

It´s early days for these changes in the UK and it´ll take time to get it better (may never get it 100% right, anywhere).

Gareth wrote:

sussex2 wrote:The situation may be helped by the excellent, and constantly evolving, road network.

Probably also helped by the much lower population density, possibly a close enough indicator of relative traffic density. The UK has almost three times as many people per unit of area.

Maybe it's better to compare the ratio of length of roads to inhabitants. How thoroughly shared resources are used plays into a lot of things.

sussex2 wrote:Outside of a city it is rare to be held up at all and even if there is a collision then things get cleared up, quickly.

Surely it's a trade-off between how thoroughly (serious) accidents are investigated, but see above - if the chances of an accident are lower then road users are much less likely to get held up.

Fair points and yes the population, outside cities is sparse.
Anyone who has driven around Bilbao in the rush hour pouring rain will admit, it can be dense! And demanding, as 8 lanes of motorway do a fan shaped merge

Is he correct? Is it definitely the case that the 'you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross' applies at the entrance and exit of roundabouts?

waremark wrote:Is he correct? Is it definitely the case that the 'you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross' applies at the entrance and exit of roundabouts?

I don't believe he is. If you read the early drafts of the HWC changes there was a clear distinction between junctions (turning into/out off a side road) and RABs. That is less clear in the final version BUT the bit about giving way to peds WAITING to cross the road is only in the junctions section.

Of course you have never been able to run them over when crossing the road and it is only the WAITING aspect that is up for debate/discussion.

If you read just a small sample of the riders who have commented on the video the consensus is not to stop exiting a RAB, and that's from many instructors/professionals as well. But I guess the video has got people talking again and racked up Mr Neal's earnings

GTR1400MAN wrote: But I guess the video has got people talking again and racked up Mr Neal's earnings

You mean there are people who watch YT without adblockers?

jont- wrote:

GTR1400MAN wrote: But I guess the video has got people talking again and racked up Mr Neal's earnings

You mean there are people who watch YT without adblockers?

I get some benefit from one YouTuber's success (driving his Emira at the moment) - so happily the answer is yes!

GTR1400MAN wrote:Ashley Neal banging the "you must stop for peds at RABs" drum again on YouTube. https://youtu.be/vXusi54W9W4?t=260

My comment on there "The motorcyclists stopping on the exit to RAB shows exactly why this is not a good idea. Every situation needs to be judged on its own merits and that includes the speed of the road and the proximity of following traffic. There's been a lot written online about the rule changes but the actual rule (which is a Should not, a Must!) is only in the section on junctions. It is not mentioned in the section dedicated to RABs. To be clear I always let pedestrians cross WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, including the ENTRY to RABs, but I'm not going to stop and put myself in danger. Even the advise from the DVSA on tests acknowledges the extra level of risk to motorcyclists and the fact the examiner will take all the information into account regarding a decision to stop or not stop. See here despatch.blog.gov.uk/2022/01/26/changes-to-the-highway-code/ (copy n paste to a browser) I don't think your videos/commentary put enough emphasis on getting the balance right and are a bit too black/white about stopping."

Edit : just seen crr003 had spotted Mr Neal's video a bit quicker than me

And he's got another 20 minutes out of it.
https://youtu.be/kWai_CyFqdc

He's slowly coming round to the sensible view on this. Even mentioning the different sections of the HWC. Way back he wrote a scathing article about me when I made this very point. Still clinging to his contact with a media person saying the junction rule applies to RABs.