Phone use (again )

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jont-
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby jont- » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:14 pm

Gareth wrote:
jont- wrote:What's wrong with DWDCA?

Harder to identify in a believable fashion?

Easier to assert someone was holding a phone than to assert they weren't paying enough attention, because then you have to describe in what way they weren't paying enough attention and what resulted from not paying enough attention. If nothing resulted from 'not paying enough attention' then how can it be asserted believably that they weren't paying enough attention?

Well, if you say s/identify/prove in court/ then you might have an argument. If it can't be identified, then it's not a problem. If it can be identified, then demonstrably it is a problem. I think the issue is still a processing the offenders problem. If you have an easy "point" thing, you can do an FPN by post (without even getting me started on the get-out-of-jail scams/schemes), but sufficient motorists would probably argue a generic DWDCA by post to the extent the courts can't cope.

sussex2
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:01 am

The rules in Spain concerning phone use are strict.
It is not permitted to use 'blue tooth' ear pieces and if using a phone (hand held) the car must be off the road and not simply parked. No satnav may be adjusted whilst the vehicle is in motion.
Despite all this there seems to be an awful lot of people flouting the rules. The same is the case in almost every country I travel to (mostly in Europe).
The least I have seen is in some of the more eastern countries such as Hungary and Poland. I don't know why and it may be only a perception.

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jont-
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby jont- » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:27 am

sussex2 wrote:The rules in Spain concerning phone use are strict.
No satnav may be adjusted whilst the vehicle is in motion.

Interesting. What does it say about interacting with a cars built in touchscreen? And then how does it differentiate between changing nav settings or HVAC controls? (given some cars like Teslas have all the controls integrated into a single touchscreen).

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Horse
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby Horse » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:51 am

sussex2 wrote:The rules in Spain concerning phone use are strict.
It is not permitted to use 'blue tooth' ear pieces


IIRC that even applies to motorcyclists' in-helmet systems! However, presumably no law against wearing earplugs, which many riders do.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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akirk
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby akirk » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:06 am

sussex2 wrote:The rules in Spain concerning phone use are strict.
It is not permitted to use 'blue tooth' ear pieces and if using a phone (hand held) the car must be off the road and not simply parked. No satnav may be adjusted whilst the vehicle is in motion.
Despite all this there seems to be an awful lot of people flouting the rules. The same is the case in almost every country I travel to (mostly in Europe).
The least I have seen is in some of the more eastern countries such as Hungary and Poland. I don't know why and it may be only a perception.


And how is that affected by voice control - if the main distraction is focusing on the activity - then voice control could still distract - even not touching anything... in the M5 - I have the ability to voice control the radio system - I can dictate WhatsApp messages etc. pressing the button for the heated seat is however fiddly to remember precisely where it is...

ultimately it has to be about distraction and bad driving - you can legislate how you like it won't cover all scenarios / cater for all combinations of cars etc.

Alasdair

martine
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby martine » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:12 pm

I think there is a big difference in 'distraction' between talking on the phone (or texting) and dictating a voice instruction.

Any activity that has live interaction with someone outside the car is likely to poorly affect the driver's observation and anticipation. Talking to a passenger, especially if they are also a driver is less distracting as the conversation often pauses while the driver deals with the hazard.

A phone call can be many minutes long and the person you are talking to has no view of the road ahead and any hazards the driver has to deal with.

A voice dictation can be done at a time that suits and it tends to be a very short period.

Personally I don't use my phone even hand-free while driving but I do occasionally and briefly touch my Satnav to change screens.
Martin - Bristol Advanced Motorists: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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jcochrane
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby jcochrane » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:54 am

I find using a touch screen more distracting than hands free phone as it means taking my eyes off the road too long to focus on tapping a screen accurately. Often though, if on hands free phone, I break into a driving commentary, if I identify a need to raise concentration on the driving, which stops talk on the phone, and carry on the conversation when the hazard is over. Normally I am opposed to commentary driving, except for training purposes (almost as distracting as passengers talking to me) but this is one occasion when I might choose to do it. If there is a need to raise concentration more, as a hazard develops, I will stop the commentary and blank out any talk on the phone. I find I need to manage my concentration levels when I drive. Maybe it's my age.

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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby Gareth » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:21 am

jcochrane wrote:if on hands free phone, I break into a driving commentary

That seems like an eminently sensible approach.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

sussex2
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby sussex2 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:48 am

akirk wrote:
sussex2 wrote:The rules in Spain concerning phone use are strict.
It is not permitted to use 'blue tooth' ear pieces and if using a phone (hand held) the car must be off the road and not simply parked. No satnav may be adjusted whilst the vehicle is in motion.
Despite all this there seems to be an awful lot of people flouting the rules. The same is the case in almost every country I travel to (mostly in Europe).
The least I have seen is in some of the more eastern countries such as Hungary and Poland. I don't know why and it may be only a perception.


And how is that affected by voice control - if the main distraction is focusing on the activity - then voice control could still distract - even not touching anything... in the M5 - I have the ability to voice control the radio system - I can dictate WhatsApp messages etc. pressing the button for the heated seat is however fiddly to remember precisely where it is...

ultimately it has to be about distraction and bad driving - you can legislate how you like it won't cover all scenarios / cater for all combinations of cars etc.

Alasdair


Purely personally I believe it is the conversation and not so much the action that distracts from driving. I also believe that any conversation or noises-off can serve to distract with the value of silence seeming to be ignored by some :)
In my chauffering days I would often ask for silence in a polite but firm manner if it was needed (and gave those that worked for me the same instructions)I can only think of one notable person that ignored it. I also found it was relatively easy to 'train' the passengers in the procedure.

crr003
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby crr003 » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:35 pm

Horse wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:
Horse wrote:What3Words :) https://what3words.com/daring.lion.race

More accurate than satnav or postcodes.

More accurate?

If you have GPS signal what is more accurate than the actual co-ordinates?


From talking to a colleague about his work, GPS we have access to is not accurate. I have had three identical GPS units side-by-side, with one of them giving a different (11m IIRC) reading.

However, even if the W3W and GPS display are using the same source information, the difference is in usability. A GPS system might show your location on a map - but if that map is a featureless field, how do you describe any further. Well, you might have a system that gives you OS co-ordinates. Great, how accurate are they? Next, try remembering that string of numbers while you're on the phone - three words is a lot easier ot remember or even write down and read back.

Postcodes? You're having a laugh. I live in a nice urban area, but the postcode only has the accuracy of a dozen or more houses. W3W will tell someone which room I'm in! It does have limitations, AFAIK it can't tell which floor you're on in a multi-storey block :)

Update!
W3W now lets you display the three words and the lat/long or British National Grid together.


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