Advanced Driving Hub

These events are niche. What you're complaining about isn't cycling per se, or representative of 'cyclists' as a common theme, but instead a competitive quality of something specific. You might as well complain about Ace Cafe meets.

And eco-warriors? Really? Is this the Telegraph?

I don't really know why I post here amongst this stuff to be honest. Perhaps you can be so kind as to remove me.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I think you need to buy a new tape measure - your current one's obviously got rather stretched ...

Nothing wrong with the tape measure.

Gareth wrote:

Imsensible wrote:The attitude seems to be that cyclists are somehow second class citizens.

Whose attitude? Are you sure you're not projecting?

I can only go by what was written. The apparent implication was that cyclists are to blame and should be more careful, not the drivers around them. As somebody who used to commute by bicycle, as well as ride for fun, I have seen this attitude towards cyclists on thousands of occasions, from a diverse range of drivers. I'm not a Lycra clad racer or time trialist, and they can be silly buggers at times, but cyclists ARE treated as second class citizens, and some of the comments, like that of akirk and his racer/eco-warrior rubbish only confirms that.

Akirk, did you actually see that accident happen? It seems you are saying you passed it 5 minutes after it happened.

Imsensible wrote:The apparent implication was that cyclists are to blame and should be more careful, not the drivers around them.

You took issue with what StressedDave wrote, specifically, that in his experience some cyclists should take a bit more care. That says absolutely nothing about how StressedDave approaches cyclists on the road but, somehow, you managed to think that he wasn't taking care while driving when he encounters cyclists. StressedDave doesn't represent all motorists, only himself, yet you took him to task for something you have imagined about him.

Imsensible wrote:

Gareth wrote:

Imsensible wrote:The attitude seems to be that cyclists are somehow second class citizens.

Whose attitude? Are you sure you're not projecting?

I can only go by what was written. The apparent implication was that cyclists are to blame and should be more careful, not the drivers around them. As somebody who used to commute by bicycle, as well as ride for fun, I have seen this attitude towards cyclists on thousands of occasions, from a diverse range of drivers. I'm not a Lycra clad racer or time trialist, and they can be silly buggers at times, but cyclists ARE treated as second class citizens, and some of the comments, like that of akirk and his racer/eco-warrior rubbish only confirms that.

Akirk, did you actually see that accident happen? It seems you are saying you passed it 5 minutes after it happened.

I think that you are reading something into that which was not what I was posting...
The reality is that some people who are drivers 90% of the time do get on a bike and suddenly become eco-warriors who hate motorists - it is a bizarre attitude as they drive as well... As I was at pains to say, I am a cyclist as well (I even have some lycra padded shorts somewhere!) and I respect all road users without distinction - but that doesn't mean that I like some of the attitudes I see - and around here we have more attitude issues from cyclists than any other road user and it has been a growing issue over the last 10 years... a combination perhaps of Swindon nearby and nice open country roads - on summer days we have packs of cyclists sweeping through the village - and it is not anti-cyclist to say that their attitude is generally antagonistic and arrogant - it is, it is observed on many occasions, they don't slow down for pedestrians or dog walkers, they block drivers (is a group of 20-40 bikes really in accord with the highway code?!) and because they are running timed journeys using Strada etc. to beat personal bests - everything else gives way to the need to beat that time - including common sense - it is not helpful that their technique of being tightly packed in behind the leader who constantly rotates means that giving space to other road users becomes difficult and it does cause issues... I have travelled nearly 5 miles stuck behind a bunch of cyclists doing 15-20 mph, who give no space to other road users - when we got to the t-junction they deliberately spread across the road to block cars from getting past... I could have overtaken a number of times - fast and small car, but I am too considerate to drive that closely to the cyclists... but they should not be using road space in that way...

the accident - no, didn't see it, but a friend did - I passed a few minutes later and saw the bike on the side of the road with a damaged wheel / forks & frame - and a bunch of other cyclists on a 60mph stretch of country road gesticulating at all cars and telling them to slow down... despite the fact that it was the cyclists fault...

sadly we live in a world where people don't wish to take responsibility for their own actions and look for someone else to blame, and for cyclists the motorist is an easy target - yes, some car drives are idiots, but sadly so are many many cyclists around here... Sorry, I am very pro cycling, I am very anti arrogance...

Alasdair

Peletons riding as if they are one vehicle is what I take issue with. They often come out of side roads when it is perfectly safe for the first 2 or 3 riders ... but then the rest continues out as if they are one living mass.

GTR1400MAN wrote:Peletons riding as if they are one vehicle is what I take issue with. They often come out of side roads when it is perfectly safe for the first 2 or 3 riders ... but then the rest continues out as if they are one living mass.

Be fair, if you have a choice between looking ahead to maintain following position and gap, or looking away to the side? There's never anything at that junction.

I'm assuming you've omitted the [sarcasm mode=on]?

Or have I completely mis-read what you've typed?

akirk wrote:

Imsensible wrote:

Gareth wrote:

Imsensible wrote:The attitude seems to be that cyclists are somehow second class citizens.

Whose attitude? Are you sure you're not projecting?

I can only go by what was written. The apparent implication was that cyclists are to blame and should be more careful, not the drivers around them. As somebody who used to commute by bicycle, as well as ride for fun, I have seen this attitude towards cyclists on thousands of occasions, from a diverse range of drivers. I'm not a Lycra clad racer or time trialist, and they can be silly buggers at times, but cyclists ARE treated as second class citizens, and some of the comments, like that of akirk and his racer/eco-warrior rubbish only confirms that.

Akirk, did you actually see that accident happen? It seems you are saying you passed it 5 minutes after it happened.

I think that you are reading something into that which was not what I was posting...
The reality is that some people who are drivers 90% of the time do get on a bike and suddenly become eco-warriors who hate motorists - it is a bizarre attitude as they drive as well... As I was at pains to say, I am a cyclist as well (I even have some lycra padded shorts somewhere!) and I respect all road users without distinction - but that doesn't mean that I like some of the attitudes I see - and around here we have more attitude issues from cyclists than any other road user and it has been a growing issue over the last 10 years... a combination perhaps of Swindon nearby and nice open country roads - on summer days we have packs of cyclists sweeping through the village - and it is not anti-cyclist to say that their attitude is generally antagonistic and arrogant - it is, it is observed on many occasions, they don't slow down for pedestrians or dog walkers, they block drivers (is a group of 20-40 bikes really in accord with the highway code?!) and because they are running timed journeys using Strada etc. to beat personal bests - everything else gives way to the need to beat that time - including common sense - it is not helpful that their technique of being tightly packed in behind the leader who constantly rotates means that giving space to other road users becomes difficult and it does cause issues... I have travelled nearly 5 miles stuck behind a bunch of cyclists doing 15-20 mph, who give no space to other road users - when we got to the t-junction they deliberately spread across the road to block cars from getting past... I could have overtaken a number of times - fast and small car, but I am too considerate to drive that closely to the cyclists... but they should not be using road space in that way...

the accident - no, didn't see it, but a friend did - I passed a few minutes later and saw the bike on the side of the road with a damaged wheel / forks & frame - and a bunch of other cyclists on a 60mph stretch of country road gesticulating at all cars and telling them to slow down... despite the fact that it was the cyclists fault...

sadly we live in a world where people don't wish to take responsibility for their own actions and look for someone else to blame, and for cyclists the motorist is an easy target - yes, some car drives are idiots, but sadly so are many many cyclists around here... Sorry, I am very pro cycling, I am very anti arrogance...

Alasdair

Excelent post.

GTR1400MAN wrote:I'm assuming you've omitted the [sarcasm mode=on]?

Or have I completely mis-read what you've typed?