Tyres - available grip during cornering?

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Horse
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Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby Horse » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:46 pm

Reducing the tightness of the bend
Where it is safe to do so, reducing the tightness of the curve through
which you ride can help to improve stability. By moving your bike from
one side of your road space to the other you can follow a shallower curve.

OK, that's a quote from MC roadcraft, but I expect there's something similar in the car version.

Bikes have to be balanced and stable otherwise they crash. That applies if upright or whatever the lean angle - and they can even be [relatively, in the hands of an expert!] stable when sliding.

So, picky on the wording apart, cars or bikes, how often do riders or drivers actually get near the limits of tyre grip during normal driving?

Has the intent of this section actually changed over the last 30-odd years? During which, tyres have come on a bit!
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Gareth
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby Gareth » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:42 pm

Horse wrote:how often do riders or drivers actually get near the limits of tyre grip during normal driving?

Thinking ... accelerating, cornering, braking ... restate the question to how often do riders or drivers trigger dynamic stability control (or similar) or anti-lock braking during normal riding or driving?

Depends which group of people you mean; there must be many groups that often or never trigger the electronic protection systems.

What about the number of riders or drivers who are involved in single vehicle crashes? Perhaps they normally trigger the systems but, when they crashed, exceeded the systems' capabilities. And a fair proportion of those in crashes involving more than one vehicle are probably the same.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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Horse
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby Horse » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:55 pm

I'd guess that the majority of riders who crash in corners have run out of talent long before finding the limits of grip (and that means that the end of talent = panic braking, so nothing to do with the chosen line through the bend).
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Horse
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby Horse » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:34 pm

Gareth wrote:
Horse wrote:how often do riders or drivers actually get near the limits of tyre grip during normal driving?

Thinking ... accelerating, cornering, braking ... restate the question to how often do riders or drivers trigger dynamic stability control (or similar) or anti-lock braking during normal riding or driving?

Depends which group of people you mean; there must be many groups that often or never trigger the electronic protection systems.


Would *any* group of drivers/riders regularly provoke abs/esp/etc during *normal* driving/riding, not emergency situations. ie Taking a cornering line to reduce stress on the tyres.
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:05 pm

Had a couple of big slides this winter on the bike. Front wheel, confidence draining, ones. More to do with fine silty cr*p in the wet rather than the tyre compound being the issue.

Modern tyres are amazing compared with what we rode on in the late 70s and early 80s.

The car hasn't experienced any issues but I've no way of knowing if the ESC is dabbing a brake. The rear wheels are not covered in brake dust like they used to be on the Honda Civic (2005 flavour).
Mike Roberts

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jont-
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby jont- » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:09 pm

Horse wrote:Would *any* group of drivers/riders regularly provoke abs/esp/etc during *normal* driving/riding, not emergency situations. ie Taking a cornering line to reduce stress on the tyres.

If they did, would they admit to it on a public forum? Maybe it overlaps with the group of people who turn of the electronics because it "gets in the way"?

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exportmanuk
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby exportmanuk » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:13 pm

I never intentionally slide the bike but at this time of year it happens. As Mike mentioned salt slime is lethal especially on roundabouts. Gone wide a few times ( not helped by the appalling condition of the roads). Was out a couple of weeks ago and got caught by some snow ( not forecast) that was interesting turned the traction control to rain mode and used 2nd gear for moving off helps on the straights but bends and roundabouts....... Not the sort of stuff I want to be riding in if I can avoid it.

Went out today with a few Observers and trainee observers Not too bad riding bit damp but as the temp was around 6 degrees the salt wagons had not been out and most of the slime has washed away.

Modern bike tyres are fantastic when compared to the stuff we had in the 70s but when they get to their limit you tend to be going much quicker than we did back then
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:37 pm

Over salting is a big issue, but trying to get reasonable discussion with anyone from the councils is impossible. It's just thrown back at you that "you are just a pleb MOP and you don't understand'. I do know the roads are more slippery in the winter than they used to be. I do know they salt at the slightest hint of low temps. I do know they salt in the rain. I do know the hydroscopic qualities of salt keep the roads wet for longer than if they were not salted as much/often. I can find no studies of short periods of frost/ice compared with DAYS of wet slippery/slimy/silty roads. There is a fundamental difference to how things were 10-15 years ago, all the under mantra of 'duty of care' to keep the roads clear for everyone.

:soap:
Mike Roberts

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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:42 pm

We had really heavy rain for most of the day yesterday, yet this is my salty bike after a rideout with my current IAM Associate this morning. Slippery, slimy roads everywhere despite the beautiful sunshine.

Image
Click for larger image
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exportmanuk
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Re: Tyres - available grip during cornering?

Postby exportmanuk » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:18 pm

Mine only looks that clean once a year, usually the day after all year biker has been around :D
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500


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